1690 BDTF RAF Metheringham

Just bumping this up, as I’m still trying to establish contact with BigRob. Is anyone on here in contact with him?

Max – Well yes, but I have some ORB copies that I wanted to send him too….. Cheers, Andrew

That’s odd Andrew, I sent Rob a PM a couple of weeks ago and received a scan of his father’s wartime logbook on the 23rd, very interesting it is too. Is that what you’re after?
Max

I haven’t heard anything back from the pm I sent to BigRob. If anyone knows him, could they please point him to his pm box. I keep forgetting to check mine and I’m guessing he is doing the same!

PM sent.

BigRob, I am indeed still very interested and will attempt to send you a pm.

Ossington – I do have some information, May I ask why you are interested and which aircraft type you are looking for serial / code letter tie-ups you are looking for?
Cheers to both, Andrew

I would be interested please. Especially if it contains serial/code tie-ups.

Flt Lt Roy mather DFC AFC

I know this thread is a couple of years old now but I just came across it. My dad was a staff pilot at 1690 from Jan 1945 until after the war. He flew Hurricanes there and was there when they moved from metherington to syerston. I have scans of his logbooks if you are still interested

Tiger Moth was most likely R5245, ex-1485 Flight and as an instructional airframe (4934M) it was assigned to 1690 BDTF on 2nd December 1944.

I’d make a fair guess that its disposal resulted in scrapping locally at Metheringham.

Another DH.82 was assigned to ‘RAF Metheringham’ (but most likely to Station Flight?) – DE147 from Bottesford Station Flight (no date), and on to RAF North Creake 10th May 1944.

The latter one probably not 1690 BDTF, but might be worth getting the record card from Hendon.

ME453 (Max) – thanks for photo, but I’m afraid you’re right, the ORB contains hardly any mentions of individual aircraft.

Sabrejet – very interesting, thank you. I think the Station Flight Tiger Moth must have been regularly flown by Gp. Capt. W.N. McKechnie, the station C.O.

Thanks again to both

I managed to get to the National Archives today (for the first time in 30 years!) and accessed 1690 BDTF’s ORB. It contains very few references to the aircraft used, except for the following interesting paragraph

“In accordance with instructions received from Headquarters Bomber Command, consequent upon the reduction of the establishment of the aircraft of the Flight, disposal instructions were asked for 8 Spitfire aircraft, 6 Martinet aircraft and 1 Tiger Moth. By the end of the month disposal instructions had been received in respect of 8 Spitfire aircraft, 2 Martinet aircraft and 1 Tiger Moth. The number of aircraft held on charge at the end of the month was 12 Hurricanes, 3 Spitfires, 1 Tiger Moth, 8 Martinets.”

Can anyone make any suggestions as to the likely identity of any of these aircraft please? Any suggestions, including further avenues of research would be very welcome. Thanks in advance. Andrew

Tiger Moth was most likely R5245, ex-1485 Flight and as an instructional airframe (4934M) it was assigned to 1690 BDTF on 2nd December 1944.

I’d make a fair guess that its disposal resulted in scrapping locally at Metheringham.

Another DH.82 was assigned to ‘RAF Metheringham’ (but most likely to Station Flight?) – DE147 from Bottesford Station Flight (no date), and on to RAF North Creake 10th May 1944.

The latter one probably not 1690 BDTF, but might be worth getting the record card from Hendon.

Good morning gents, an interesting thread to which I can add the photo below of “Skyscraper”, this from the Waddington photo albums:

I was hoping to find the dates via the ORBs of specific flights on specific days of their Hurricanes and Spitfires but from Andrew’s post above it seems sadly not.

Regards
Max

Tim

Sorry, I meant to ask you, is the data on the Martinets posted based on the RAF Movement cards? I’m just thinking of other ways of finding out more about the Unit.

Thanks

Andrew

Morning Andrew,

Yes I have a full set of Martinet movement cards which have been cross referenced with the accident cards (Cat Ac – Cat E) currently in the process of reviewing the unit ORB’s and available log book entries for additional information. It is quite a large task so is taking some time.

Kind regards,

Tim

Thanks Graham, I’ll look out for that. Incidentally, I now know that whichever Spitfires were at Metheringham, they would only have been there during November and December of 1944. Thanks again. Andrew

For information about presentation aircraft, you need the book Gifts of War, published by Air Britain. I do have a copy but it’s out of reach at the moment.

Tim

Sorry, I meant to ask you, is the data on the Martinets posted based on the RAF Movement cards? I’m just thinking of other ways of finding out more about the Unit.

Thanks

Andrew

Hello Andrew,

Thank you for the ORB entry that is additional to my files which have now been updated. I will look forward to seeing how your research develops.

Kind regards,

Tim

1690 BDTF RAF Metheringham

Tim (No.2 A.A.C.U)

Many thanks for the really useful information.

In exchange I’m afraid that, as yet, all I can offer in exchange is the following extract from 1690 BDTF’s ORB for 12th September 1944 (when the unit was still at Scampton)

“A flying accident occurred today at Hucknall involving this Unit’s Martinet H.P.321 on 12.9.44 in which 1391860 W/O Graham, A.A. – pilot and 1454475 LAC. Lewis, V.E. – F.M.E. (passenger) were fatally injured.”

It’s not much, but I hope it helps and I’ll let you know as and when I find out more about the Unit’s Martinets (which I’m determined to do!)

Andrew

Andrew,

Please find detailed below my Martinet notes which include possible reference to 1690 BDTF. A number are assumed following the renumbering of 1485 BDTF if you do come across any Martinet references I would be interested in updating my files.

HN876 P & Powis 1690/ C23c Mercury XXX 16.09.42 39 M.U., Colerne; 13.10.42 1485 (Target Towing) Flight, Coningsby; 18.12.42 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Coningsby; 16.02.43 Flying Accident Cat Ac damage, 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Coningsby aircrafts undercarriage collapsed on landing. Pilot Flying Officer NOCK, Peter William Wilson (62332) Uninjured, Unknown T.T.O. Uninjured. Accident time13.00, Duty: Target Towing; 20.02.43 Repaired on Site; 18.04.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck; 29.06.43 Flying Accident Cat Ac damage 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck, when taxying for take off aircraft struck Martinet HN879. Pilot Flying Officer EYRE, Malcolm Albert (111548) Uninjured. Accident time 08.44, Duty: Taxying; 23.09.43 Repaired on Site; 02.10.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Skellingthorpe; 12.11.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston; 26.02.44 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston disbands; 15.02.44 Poss (?) 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Syerston; 04.04.44 48 M.U. Hawarden; 21.03.46 48 M.U., Hawarden Home Census; 30.12.48 Sold as scrap to H. Bath & Son.

HN877 P & Powis 1690/ C23c Mercury XXX 13.09.42 39 M.U., Colerne; 14.10.42 1485 (Target Towing) Flight, Coningsby; 18.12.42 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Coningsby; 08.03.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck; 18.07.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck aircraft involved on a standard corkscrew fighter affiliation exercise with Wellington BK235 when F/O JORDON approx 200yrds astern saw the starboard wing of the Wellington break off outboard of the starboard engine which swung round and broke off the tailplanes, elevators, rudder and rear turret crashing at 16:25 Hrs; 23.08.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Skellingthorpe; 12.11.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston; 15.02.44 Flying Accident Cat Ac damage, 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston starboard brake failed aircraft rolled forward port undercarriage leg went into ditch and aircraft nosed over. Pilot Flying Officer GRAHAM, James Scott (145862) Uninjured. Accident time 10.30, Duty: Gunnery Training; 23.02.44 Repaired on Site; 17.03.44 RAF Syerston, Poss (?) 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Syerston; 09.12.44 M.I. Miles A/c Reading; 13.12.44 Repaired in Works Cat B Miles A/c; 16.03.45 Awaiting Collection; 22.03.45 1335 (Meteor) Conversion Unit, Colerne; 27.07.45 1335 (Meteor) Conversion Unit, Molesworth; 06.12.45 39 M.U., Colerne; 21.03.46 39 M.U., Colerne Home Census; 04.12.46 S.O.C.

HN878 P & Powis 1690/ C23c Mercury XXX 17.09.42 39 M.U., Colerne; 14.10.42 1485 (Target Towing) Flight, Coningsby; 18.12.42 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Coningsby; 08.03.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck; 23.08.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Skellingthorpe; 12.11.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston; 26.02.44 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston disbands; 15.02.44 Poss (?) 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Syerston; 13.07.44 (?) 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Scampton; 27.06.44 (?)1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Metheringham; 13.04.45 M.I. Miles A/c; 08.06.45 Awaiting Collection; 02.07.45 48 M.U., Hawarden; 21.01.47 48 M.U., Hawarden storage; 14.02.49 Sold as scrap to J Dale.

HN879 P & Powis 1690/ C23c Mercury XXX 18.09.42 39 M.U., Colerne; 14.10.42 1485 (Target Towing) Flight, Coningsby on taxying starboard wheel ran over soft earth and sank into ground, undercarriage buckled and collapsed. Pilot Flt / Lt REY, C.S.J. (72541) Uninjured. Accident time 10.00, Duty: Taxying; 18.12.42 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Coningsby; 08.02.43 Flying Accident Cat Ac damage, 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Coningsby whilst taxying Starboard wheel sank into soft ground, buckled and collapsed. Pilot Flight Lieutenant REY, C.S.J. (72541) Uninjured. Accident time 10.00, Duty: Taxying; 16.02.43 Repaired on Site; 07.03.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck; 22.03.43 Flying Accident Cat A damage 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck whilst taxying aircraft left perimeter track and port wheel sunk into loosely filled trench causing the aircraft to tip onto nose. Pilot Flying Officer JORDON, William Francis (128675) Uninjured. Accident time: 12.15, Duty: Air Gunner Training; Unknown date of Repair; 29.06.43 Flying Accident Cat Ac damage 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck, when taxying for takeoff aircraft struck by Martinet HN876. Pilot P/O TAYLER, Denis Graham William (141476) Uninjured. Accident time 08.44, Duty: Taxying; 07.07.43 Repaired on Site; 16.07.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck; 12.11.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston; 26.02.44 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston disbands; 15.02.44 Poss (?) 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Syerston; 04.04.44 48 M.U. Hawarden; 21.03.46 48 M.U., Hawarden Home Census; 10.12.48 Sold as scrap to H. Bath & Son.

HN880 P & Powis 1690/ C23c Mercury XXX 18.09.42 39 M.U., Colerne; 14.10.42 1485 (Target Towing) Flight, Coningsby; 18.12.42 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Coningsby; 07.03.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck; 12.11.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston; 26.02.44 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Syerston disbands; 15.02.44 Poss (?) 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Syerston; 04.04.44 48 M.U. Hawarden; 21.03.46 48 M.U., Hawarden Home Census; 10.12.48 Sold as scrap to H. Bath & Son.

HP321 P& Powis 1690 / C 23 (c) Mercury XXX 13.02.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck; 27.07.43 Flying Accident Cat A damage, 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck aircrafts undercarriage unable to be locked down due to faulty locking device aircraft made bellylanding at Fulbeck. Pilot Squadron Leader CROSS, Douglas John Baker (45039) Uninjured. Accident time 12.30, Duty: Training; Unknown date of repair and return to1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Fulbeck; 23.08.43 1485 (Bombing) Gunnery Flight, Skellingthorpe; 24.11.43 R.A.F. Syerston; Unknown date to 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight; 12.09.44 Flying Accident Cat E damage, 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Scampton aircrafts engine failed in flight and aircraft crashed while attempting emergency landing at RAF Hicknall. Pilot Warrant Officer GRAHAM, Ambrose Alexander (Trinidad) (1391860) Killed, T.T.O. Leading Aircraftman LEWIS, Victor Ernest (1454475) died of his injuries; 25.09.44 ReCat E2 damage

HP392 P& Powis 1690 / C 23 (c) Mercury XXX 07.03.43 16 O.T.U., Upper Heyford; 17.10.43 Flying Accident Cat B damage, 16 O.T.U., Barford St John aircraft involved in collision on ground with Wellington BK402, two aircraft in air given ‘green’ to land and aircraft on ground (Wellington) was given ‘green to take off, landing aircraft struck rear of Wellington having failed to see red warning flare. Pilot Flight Lieutenant GRAY, Basil Howard D.F.C. (R.N.Z.A.F.) (41477) Uninjured. Accident time 20.25, Duty: Training Note: Citation Distinguished Flying Cross (15 Feb 1943): [70 Sqn RAF (Wellington)] Flying Officer Gray has participated in many operational sorties, a number of which were against heavily defended targets at Tobruk. One night in November, 1942, after taking part in a bombing raid on enemy tank concentrations he descended to within 50 feet and made a machine gun attack on the enemy’s mechanical transport. Two vehicles and a petrol bowser were seen to burst into flames. Flying officer Gray is a most successful and daring captain who has shown exceptional tenacity in seeking out his targets. Flt Lt Gray flew 44 sorties with 70 Sqn in the Mediterranean theatre.; 22.10.43 Repaired in Works, Phillip & Powis; 02.12.43 Awaiting Collection; 24.12.43 19 O.T.U., Kinloss; 28.09.44 1690 Bomber (Defence) Training Flight, Metheringham; 17.12.44 39 M.U., Colerne; 21.03.46 39 M.U., Colerne Home Census; 22.01.47 S.O.C.

Kind regards,

Tim

I managed to get to the National Archives today (for the first time in 30 years!) and accessed 1690 BDTF’s ORB. It contains very few references to the aircraft used, except for the following interesting paragraph

“In accordance with instructions received from Headquarters Bomber Command, consequent upon the reduction of the establishment of the aircraft of the Flight, disposal instructions were asked for 8 Spitfire aircraft, 6 Martinet aircraft and 1 Tiger Moth. By the end of the month disposal instructions had been received in respect of 8 Spitfire aircraft, 2 Martinet aircraft and 1 Tiger Moth. The number of aircraft held on charge at the end of the month was 12 Hurricanes, 3 Spitfires, 1 Tiger Moth, 8 Martinets.”

Can anyone make any suggestions as to the likely identity of any of these aircraft please? Any suggestions, including further avenues of research would be very welcome. Thanks in advance. Andrew

Just “bumping this up”, in the hope that someone can throw some light on the presentation Spitfires. I’m really hoping for the odd photo, but think I’m being a bit optimistic!