'1919 Aeroplane' – Charles Dumont – for sale on Milweb

I’ll send you an e-mail, Laurence!

What I do find odd, in the context of the newspaper report, is that the initial purchasers clearly knew the make, model and age of the avionette that they purchased last year whereas the current vendor, on milweb, seems not to know what it is and has ascibed to it an age some ten years older than it is feasible to be. That’s strange.

This must be one of the last Avionnettes built, by Walter Haug at Bex, not far from me, first flight in 1990. Built around the Poinsard engine that Haug had acquired. Taken at Lausanne 2011.
Avion a: I’d appreciate a few pommes if you have any to spare.

Laurence

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I have now accessed the news report in l’Est éclair and, in consequence, I’m quietly confident that the aeroplane that, last year, was being offered for sale on leboncoin (which advertisement I cannot now access) and the aeroplane currently being offered for sale on milweb are one and the same HM.8. The reason is the mention, in both advertisements, of Charles Dumont and the fact that he came from a family of noted nurserymen going back many generations. Curiously, the advertisement on leboncoin led me to purchase a book entitled Les Bons Pommiers à Planter written by Eric Dumont (one of the sons of Charles Dumont and one of the foremost propagators of apple trees in France). To the best of my recollection the advertisement – as the photograph I posted in reply #6 above suggests – offered for sale only the fuselage and tail feathers of the HM.8 but it would appear that the engine existed as well. The l’Est éclair report speaks of seller and buyers in discussion ‘in front of the wooden cabin, tail and engine of the aeroplane constructed in the thirties ….’ and about Henri Dumont, a retired nurseryman, having ‘piously preserved the HM.8 in a hangar …..’. The news report goes on to say that the wings and propellor were lost and much of the fabric was missing. Thus one might deduce that, subsequently, it has acquired ‘new build’ wings and has been recovered by the purchasers, who were a father and son from Toulouse and who said that they envisaged restoring the HM.8. Assuming this to be the case and whilst I don’t know what the work cost, if they bought the airframe for 1500 Euros and believe that they can find a purchaser for it at 50 000 Euros, all I can say is – nice work if you can get it!

Unfortunately I can’t access the news report at http://www.lest-eclair.fr/38936/article/2017-09-10/le-hm-8-de-charles-dumont-s-envole – or, at least, I’m not willing to pay to do so – but what little I can access says that in September 2017 two collectors from Toulouse bought a rare Pou du Ciel constructed by Charles Dumont in the thirties. However the headline says that the HM-8 of Charles Dumont takes off …. ! So is what we have here the two purchasers seeking to trade on the HM-8 a year later?

There were a lot of variations on the HM.8 theme constructed in pre-war France. Many builders adapted and revised Mignet’s design to produce subtly different avionettes to which, often, they gave different maker and model names. One only has to scan the pages of Les Ailes, in the late 1920s and early 1930s, to find evidence of this trend. So it may have a different name whilst remaining, essentially, an HM.8.

I’m with Tony and John on the HM.8 attribution. Compare it to this:

However I’ll be surprised if the vendor will find a buyer at 50 000 Euros€. Last year there was another – albeit minus wings and engine – offered for sale for about 1500€ Euros. Here it is:

Furthermore in attributing it to 1919 the vendor is the best part of a decade out for a HM.8. Mignet didn’t build the first until 1928 and homebuilt examples didn’t start to emerge until 1929.

I think that it’s more likely to be a small parasol monoplane and that the rear fuselage is possibly silver doped fabric. In fact I suspect looking at the cabane pylon that it is basically a Henri Mignet HM.8 type of 1924. of which a small number were built by French enthusiasts. The engine is perhaps a 20hp Clerget or a Poinsard.

John

Charles Dumont is no relation to Alberto Santos-Dumont, and appears to be a little known (at least in the English speaking world) French WW1 aviator who spent a short time building aircraft post-WW1. Wikipedia gives a very little: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Dumont_(pilote). As this says he built a Pou-du-Ciel, I would take a guess that this might be a version of another Henri Mignet design – an HM 8 Avionette, but with longer legs. This is a late 1920’s design – but not 1919.

Seems to be a single seat metal? fuselage parasol or biplane with a horizontally opposed twin cylinder engine?

This configuration is quite advanced for 1919, and rather surprising since there were so many WW1 surplus airframes available at the time.

I suspect its more likely a late 1920s design, but you would assume its well documented if it was Dumonts?

Was he a relative of Santos Dumont?, and was the aeroplane a flyer in its time?. It is quite a chunk of money . I don’t know what to think really, just down to personal choice I guess. Interesting all the same, thanks for posting.