£195 Million "Bloody Sunday" report out

I take it then EGPH that as an opressed minority you also support ETA and condemn the imperialists in Madrid who will not give the Basque region its independence.

You appear to have a very perverse view of northern irelands history, I can only conclude that you have been given youre history from a very biased source or are trolling

Please re read what others have written – at no time has any one said the british army was right or justified what has been said is that the mistake (for that is what it was) is a tragedy.

Re freedom fighters and terrorists being one in the same whilst a point that can be argued on, quite simply once you are attacking and targeting civillians you are a TERRORIST no ifs and or buts.

RH: Actually my elders as you refer to them are just as respectable as any other politician out there.

Exactly…not much of a recommendation is it ???:D:diablo:

Things have got a lot better over the past 10 years for everyone but there is still work to do to achieve the ultimate aim of kicking the colonialists out of Ireland and allowing Ireland to decide its destiny alone!

There you go again forgetting the teentzy weentzy democracy thing vis a vis what the majority of ulster residents wish for 😉

edit…I am not that bothered myself,but it is a complicated issue.
The whole religious thing just makes me laugh,there is no real difference between any irish residents…as some of us have alluded to previously – it is a power trip for certain people.

I wonder if Ireland actually wants Northern Ireland?? The Irish economy seems pretty much ********d -maybe we should pull out and end the economic investment from London and see what happens when the money comes from Dublin!

RH: Actually my elders as you refer to them are just as respectable as any other politician out there. You calling them semi-respectable is an insult to the sacrifices they have made during the years of conflict against the British.

I do not think for one minute that Republicans in Ulster lack freedom these days. Things have got a lot better over the past 10 years for everyone but there is still work to do to achieve the ultimate aim of kicking the colonialists out of Ireland and allowing Ireland to decide its destiny alone!

I wouldn’t see anyone I worship as dubious at all!! One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist.

No, they are the same thing. And if you really regard Republicans in Ulster as lacking freedom then I think you seriously misunderstand the realities of Ulster in 2010.

I am certainly not a machine gun totting murderer as no matter how much I may hate certain people in N.I and how strongly I may feel about it I would never shoot at anyone over it. So you can hardly say I need to grow up when I am passionately putting forward a point of view in a peaceful manner!

If you took the trouble to read what I said you would see that I made no such accusation. The point I was making was that many of your elders, with a lifetime’s more experience, have grown from murderers to semi-respectable members of the “establishment”. And no doubt your time will come.

Ah that tired old chestnut :rolleyes:

I wouldn’t see anyone I worship as dubious at all!! One man’s freedom fighter is another man’s terrorist.

I am certainly not a machine gun totting murderer as no matter how much I may hate certain people in N.I and how strongly I may feel about it I would never shoot at anyone over it. So you can hardly say I need to grow up when I am passionately putting forward a point of view in a peaceful manner!

The trouble is that your text and manner are not thoughtful and even handed,your obvious hero worship of some dubious individuals doesnt help much either
rgds baz

I am certainly not a machine gun totting murderer as no matter how much I may hate certain people in N.I and how strongly I may feel about it I would never shoot at anyone over it. So you can hardly say I need to grow up when I am passionately putting forward a point of view in a peaceful manner!

RH you’ll need to do a lot better than that to upset me, I’ve heard worse whilst debating the issue with my partner!

Maybe it is just youthful rebelliousness but look at Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams they began as young rebels and are still just as determined in their 60s!!

But that’s the point, EGPH, they are not. McGuiness has gone from machine-gun toting murderer to elected member of the UK parliament. Admittedly he has not taken up his seat, along with his co-conspirators, and for that I would disenfranchise them, but he is an elected member of the UK parliament. So he has grown up, as will today’s rebellious youngsters.

The sectarian aspect has been a smokescreen to hide the real truth, it is mostly organised crime and despite the political changes there are those who will not give up the easy money to be made.

Although i have only quoted one sentence above I agree with all your post(s) scotavia.
Re the quote above…
It is a real shame that religion/sectarianism has been used as an excuse for so much violence around the world for hundreds of years…the truth is that ordinary people around the world regardless of colour/creed/religion just want a peaceful life,it is usually the leaders and a small percentage of lowlifes that incite people to violence for some religous cause or other.
The ordinary folk in ireland are no different…most just want peace,I was over in the south west last week (puffin thread) and it is an outstandingly beautiful country.

rgds baz

And if you need further proof about the organised crime element just consider the attacks on those who decided to follow the peace process.

My Uncle used to drive a van delivering bread around Belfast and he saw a lot of the intimidation and kids being paid cash to chuck stones and petrol bombs.

The organised crime in Ireland always adopts the new methods, the most recent being stealing heavy plant to remove cash point machines from buildings often leaving the building badly damaged.

The only consolation being that we were all angry about something or other when we were young and rebellious, but we all grew up so let’s hope that applies to our friend before any harm is done.

Mods, please edit if this is seen to be criticising a fellow forumite, but it is rather relevant to his posts.

RH you’ll need to do a lot better than that to upset me, I’ve heard worse whilst debating the issue with my partner!

Maybe it is just youthful rebelliousness but look at Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams they began as young rebels and are still just as determined in their 60s!!

And I still believe that those who go on so called peaceful protest marches when tensions are high have been led astray. Often the aim is to provoke confrontation not reconcile the isssues. And cynical armed people will hi jack the protest turning into a riot for there own ends.

Certainly it was and still is about power. A democratic government raises revenue by legal taxation.A business raises money by providing goods or services.
On the other hand an illegal organisation raises money by robbery, extortion,blackmail, sale of illegal drugs and in more recent times funds from business set up to launder illegal money.

You might call them the Mafia or a paramilitary grouping but they still use threats ,fear etc to obtain co operation. It is organised crime and has been part of life in many countries for many years. Certainly there are those who claim political aims however the relative ease of having access to ready cash has often changed the ideals of those who got involved.

In Ireland protection racket money has been paid not just by shop keepers but also building companies. When journalists have found out and published details they are threatened and in some cases killed. The sectarian aspect has been a smokescreen to hide the real truth, it is mostly organised crime and despite the political changes there are those who will not give up the easy money to be made.

Consider the attitude to the Kray brothers crime family in London, they were held in great esteem by many of the locals, who regarded them as keeping order better than the police, they handed out punishments. And think of the kneecapping in Ireland given to drug dealers who dared to operate outside the cartel. Ask the taxi drivers who they paid money to beside the offical licence .

The British Army intimidated many Irish people throughout the conflict and seemingly, according to eyewitnesses, took great pleasure in doing so!

That would appear to be a sweeping view of a hugely complex issue, with feelings running and bred into generation after generation. The Army should. in an ideal world never be called into a police situation. To quote a line from a TV series a while ago:

“There’s a reason you separate the military and the police. One fights the enemies of the state, the other serves and protects the people. When the military becomes both, then the enemies of the state tend to become the people.”

For every claim of a soldier taking pleasure in intimidation, there is a republican act of violence and cruelty. The truth will never come out, there are probably two many truths to count.

I cannot see it as being more than an observation. If the subject views it as other than that he can contact me by PM and I will remove it

Moggy
Moderator

The only consolation being that we were all angry about something or other when we were young and rebellious, but we all grew up so let’s hope that applies to our friend before any harm is done.

Mods, please edit if this is seen to be criticising a fellow forumite, but it is rather relevant to his posts.