1962 Halifax recovery info needed

My father’s auntie was married to Stefan Manek part of the Polish flight crew on 1662 HCU Halifax II JN967.They had a daughter (my fathers cousin).I know after speaking to my father that very little information was known about the circumstances surrounding this crash.My dads cousin would be very interested if anybody has information about Stefan Manek ,ie his friends, relatives or anyone who knew him.

I was wrong in my earlier post: Sgt Sefan Manek 780277 was one of the two crew members who were buried on 18 November 1944.
He was born on 13 January 1922 in Warsaw. Having come to Britain in 1940, he was initially a fitter. He then volounteered to become a flight engineer. He underwent a course at 4 SoTT. In October 1944 he was posted to the Lancaster-equipped 300 (Polish) Sqn, and attached to 1662 HCU for conversion training.
I’m afraid that’s all I know about him. I wasn’t even able to locate a portrait photograph of him, unfortunately – would your Dad’s cousin have any?

Relative to Stefan Manek

On the night of 11 November 1944 no. 1662 HCU Halifax II JN967 crashed during a training flight in Lincs killing the crew (P/O Michal Wisniewski, Sgts Leszek Milewski, Stanislaw Babiacki, Jan Rzetelny, Stefan Manek, Mieczyslaw Kozlowski and Franciszek Piwoda – all Polish). Remains of the aeroplane were found in 1962. I am looking for information about the circumstances of the discovery and recovery of the wreck and the bodies.original quote.
My father’s auntie was married to Stefan Manek part of the Polish flight crew on 1662 HCU Halifax II JN967.They had a daughter (my fathers cousin).I know after speaking to my father that very little information was known about the circumstances surrounding this crash.My dads cousin would be very interested if anybody has information about Stefan Manek ,ie his friends, relatives or anyone who knew him.
Thanks .

Eames, Millar, Gill, Murphy & Booth as listed on the site linked to in previous post were onboard Lancaster I W4859 from 1662 HCU lost 12/12/44 during training.

Thanks for explaining the additional background info that you have relating to the crash, I still find it strange that the aircraft and bodies were only discovered in 1962.

Good luck with your continued research into this loss. You might find some more people that could help over on the RAF Commands forum here http://www.rafcommands.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID6&conf=DCConfID1

Thanks again!

Eames, Millar, Gill, Murphy & Booth as listed on the site linked to in previous post were onboard Lancaster I W4859 from 1662 HCU lost 12/12/44 during training.

Thanks for explaining the additional background info that you have relating to the crash, I still find it strange that the aircraft and bodies were only discovered in 1962.

Good luck with your continued research into this loss. You might find some more people that could help over on the RAF Commands forum here http://www.rafcommands.com/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID6&conf=DCConfID1

Thanks!

Now, when I asked about “that crew”, I meant the British crew listed with JN967 on that website. When I started researching the Polish crew lost in 1662 HCU on 11/11/1944 I have checked the excellent book by Chorley, so I know he lists them with this serial no. of the Halifax. I wonder what serial he quoted for the other crew.

The crew were all buried at Newark-on-Trent Cemetery.

Two bodies were found in 1944 and buried at Newark in mid-November. Off the top of my head they were Wisniewski and Piwoda (I don’t have all my data at hand). IIRC it was believed they baled out but their parachutes failed to open.
The other five bodies were found with the wreckage in 1962, and buried at Newark in the autumn of that year (I do have the exact date in my files). That was the last burial at the Polish Air Force cemetery at Newark. Of the five men buried in 1962, four were Roman Catholics and one (Babiacki IIRC) was Jewish. As far as I know, there was a joint ceremony with a priest and a rabbi.

Having looked on a map to establish where the aircraft crashed, I personally find it hard to believe that the wreckage and bodies were not discovered until 1962. What is perhaps more likely is that additional wreckage was discovered in 1962 and possibly some human remains. Due to the destructive nature of aviation crashes it was not always possible to fully recover all bodies complete.

I have understood that the aircraft crashed into a lake/marsh and was discovered when the place was drained during major construction works in the area (supermarket, housing estate, motorway?).

Thanks. I don’t have a copy of the “HCU Losses” at hand at the moment. However, from what I have found out so far, most remains of the aeroplane with bodies of most crew members were not found until 1962. Would any crash report be filed by the RAF at that time?

Like I said, I can’t consult “HCU Losses” at the moment. Would you care to check what serial Chorley lists with that crew (if any?).

Ok, the serial number and crew in Chorley’s HCU losses for this aircraft are as follows:
Halifax II JN967, Sgt L Milewski PAF, Sgt S Manek PAF, Sgt S Babiacki PAF, P/O M E Wisniewski PAF, Sgt F Piwoda PAF, Sgt M Kozlowski PAF, Sgt J Rzetelny PAF.

The crew were all buried at Newark-on-Trent Cemetery.

The Chorley entry also says that 8 minutes after take-off, after climbing to 3,000 feet, the bomber crashed in flames……… It was ascertained that one of the starboard engines had caught fire and, it is thought, the Graviner system was operated before the propeller had been fully feathered.

It would seem to me that Chorley has obtained that information from some sort of report into the loss. The detail suggests to me that it was a report written soon after the loss (in 1944) rather than one written in 1962. Having looked on a map to establish where the aircraft crashed, I personally find it hard to believe that the wreckage and bodies were not discovered until 1962. What is perhaps more likely is that additional wreckage was discovered in 1962 and possibly some human remains. Due to the destructive nature of aviation crashes it was not always possible to fully recover all bodies complete.

A call to the register of deaths responsible for Newark-on-Trent Cemetery should give you the exact dates that the crew were buried.

As to your question about whether a report would have been made in 1962; if the RAF/MOD were involved then most likely.

Voytech, the Halifax crashed on fire at East Ferry, 8 miles SW of Scunthorpe, Lincs. According to HCU Losses by W R Chorley “such was the destruction of the Halifax that the cause of the blaze could not be determined”.

There should also be a crash report somewhere

Thanks. I don’t have a copy of the “HCU Losses” at hand at the moment. However, from what I have found out so far, most remains of the aeroplane with bodies of most crew members were not found until 1962. Would any crash report be filed by the RAF at that time?

It would appear that the local Parish Council are looking to erect a memorial to aircrews killed in the Parish http://www.worldwar2exraf.co.uk/Aircrewnoticeboard73.html they have Halifax JN967 listed as lost on 11/11/44 but with a different crew?!

Like I said, I can’t consult “HCU Losses” at the moment. Would you care to check what serial Chorley lists with that crew (if any?).

Archives from the local newspapers in the area might be able to help you or you could put a notice in the local press to find out if there is anyone who can provide more info.

Good idea. Can somebody here suggest any local papers to contact?

Cees, I believe you are correct, however, I think there will be other paperwork relating to the crash written by the recovery team which may have been one of the MU’s in the area. Also possibly a police report?

IIRC the loss cards are at the RAF Museum Hendon

HTH

Cees

Voytech, the Halifax crashed on fire at East Ferry, 8 miles SW of Scunthorpe, Lincs. According to HCU Losses by W R Chorley “such was the destruction of the Halifax that the cause of the blaze could not be determined”.

The crew are buried in Newark-upon-Trent Cemetery.

It would appear that the local Parish Council are looking to erect a memorial to aircrews killed in the Parish http://www.worldwar2exraf.co.uk/Aircrewnoticeboard73.html they have Halifax JN967 listed as lost on 11/11/44 but with a different crew?!

Archives from the local newspapers in the area might be able to help you or you could put a notice in the local press to find out if there is anyone who can provide more info. There should also be a crash report somewhere but I can’t remember where they are held – National Archives?

:confused: