1st Airbus A320 for Air-Berlin

Over the last two and a half years of ultra long haul flying, I can honestly say that the control column has never bothered me. I understand that you might find it great having a table in front of you but for me it’s really not an issue, in fact I like having it there as my map is displayed right in front of me and I can rest my reading material on it for an easy read. 😉 I also find it a good indication of what the aircraft is doing and seeing how the autopilot is reacting to turbulence etc. 😀

I guess it’s horses for courses mate. 😀

I used to say exactly the same thing!

Over the last two and a half years of ultra long haul flying, I can honestly say that the control column has never bothered me. I understand that you might find it great having a table in front of you but for me it’s really not an issue, in fact I like having it there as my map is displayed right in front of me and I can rest my reading material on it for an easy read. 😉 I also find it a good indication of what the aircraft is doing and seeing how the autopilot is reacting to turbulence etc. 😀

I guess it’s horses for courses mate. 😀

I used to say exactly the same thing!

That’s exactly right…but they didn’t when Boeing asked about the 777. The decision makers then were the guys who had built their careers on 707’s and 727’s but it’s not they who live with the results.

Speaking with our fleet captain yesterday, he told me that the 787 is going to be the same flight deck as the 777 therefore cross crew qualification on the two types. The decision makes won’t be from that era any more. 😉

That’s exactly right…but they didn’t when Boeing asked about the 777. The decision makers then were the guys who had built their careers on 707’s and 727’s but it’s not they who live with the results.

Speaking with our fleet captain yesterday, he told me that the 787 is going to be the same flight deck as the 777 therefore cross crew qualification on the two types. The decision makes won’t be from that era any more. 😉

Whoever linked sidesticks to performance??? I only state their benefits to ergonomics. Those that wish to hem themselves behind a control column for a long haul flight when they will inly use said column for 1% of the flight are welcome to that. However, if you actually tried one you might understand…

Over the last two and a half years of ultra long haul flying, I can honestly say that the control column has never bothered me. I understand that you might find it great having a table in front of you but for me it’s really not an issue, in fact I like having it there as my map is displayed right in front of me and I can rest my reading material on it for an easy read. 😉 I also find it a good indication of what the aircraft is doing and seeing how the autopilot is reacting to turbulence etc. 😀

I guess it’s horses for courses mate. 😀

Whoever linked sidesticks to performance??? I only state their benefits to ergonomics. Those that wish to hem themselves behind a control column for a long haul flight when they will inly use said column for 1% of the flight are welcome to that. However, if you actually tried one you might understand…

Over the last two and a half years of ultra long haul flying, I can honestly say that the control column has never bothered me. I understand that you might find it great having a table in front of you but for me it’s really not an issue, in fact I like having it there as my map is displayed right in front of me and I can rest my reading material on it for an easy read. 😉 I also find it a good indication of what the aircraft is doing and seeing how the autopilot is reacting to turbulence etc. 😀

I guess it’s horses for courses mate. 😀

Wys
In the past you’ve accused me of being biased and opinionated towards Boeing.
I think this thread is showing you are a pot that calls the kettle black ;).
It is obvious you are biased towards the Airbus way of things. I supose that is only natural, it is after all the way you now earn your keep. 🙂

Sorry Sandy, no pot calling the kettle black as my postings are based on factual experience of operating both manufacturers products rather than personal bias. I tried both and one works better than the other. It’s not my fault that the one I prefer to actually operate is not the one that you idolise. Sorry!

Wys
In the past you’ve accused me of being biased and opinionated towards Boeing.
I think this thread is showing you are a pot that calls the kettle black ;).
It is obvious you are biased towards the Airbus way of things. I supose that is only natural, it is after all the way you now earn your keep. 🙂

Sorry Sandy, no pot calling the kettle black as my postings are based on factual experience of operating both manufacturers products rather than personal bias. I tried both and one works better than the other. It’s not my fault that the one I prefer to actually operate is not the one that you idolise. Sorry!

I feel it really doesn’t matter weather an aircraft has a side stick or not, it doesn’t make it a better or more technically advanced aircraft. The customer did not want it, period.

The supplier listened to the customer and they said no, simple. Airbus had no customers when it was first launched so it was a gamble that paid off for them. The 777 out performs the A340, a side stick has no role in that equation.

Whoever linked sidesticks to performance??? I only state their benefits to ergonomics. Those that wish to hem themselves behind a control column for a long haul flight when they will inly use said column for 1% of the flight are welcome to that. However, if you actually tried one you might understand…

I feel it really doesn’t matter weather an aircraft has a side stick or not, it doesn’t make it a better or more technically advanced aircraft. The customer did not want it, period.

The supplier listened to the customer and they said no, simple. Airbus had no customers when it was first launched so it was a gamble that paid off for them. The 777 out performs the A340, a side stick has no role in that equation.

Whoever linked sidesticks to performance??? I only state their benefits to ergonomics. Those that wish to hem themselves behind a control column for a long haul flight when they will inly use said column for 1% of the flight are welcome to that. However, if you actually tried one you might understand…

Bean counters select aircraft nowadays, it’s irreverent if it has a side stick or a column. They probably don’t even know what a side stick is….

They want the best aircraft for the job. 😉

That’s exactly right…but they didn’t when Boeing asked about the 777. The decision makers then were the guys who had built their careers on 707’s and 727’s but it’s not they who live with the results.

Bean counters select aircraft nowadays, it’s irreverent if it has a side stick or a column. They probably don’t even know what a side stick is….

They want the best aircraft for the job. 😉

That’s exactly right…but they didn’t when Boeing asked about the 777. The decision makers then were the guys who had built their careers on 707’s and 727’s but it’s not they who live with the results.

[QUOTE=wysiwygThe sad thing is that the old dinosaurs in TWA, PANAM, Eastern, etc who were probably the ones that forced Boeing down this route are probably now retired from the industry and their ‘but that’s how we’ve always done it’ mentality plagues us for years to come.
[/QUOTE]

Bean counters select aircraft nowadays, it’s irreverent if it has a side stick or a column. They probably don’t even know what a side stick is….

They want the best aircraft for the job. 😉

[QUOTE=wysiwygThe sad thing is that the old dinosaurs in TWA, PANAM, Eastern, etc who were probably the ones that forced Boeing down this route are probably now retired from the industry and their ‘but that’s how we’ve always done it’ mentality plagues us for years to come.
[/QUOTE]

Bean counters select aircraft nowadays, it’s irreverent if it has a side stick or a column. They probably don’t even know what a side stick is….

They want the best aircraft for the job. 😉

I feel it really doesn’t matter weather an aircraft has a side stick or not, it doesn’t make it a better or more technically advanced aircraft. The customer did not want it, period.

The supplier listened to the customer and they said no, simple. Airbus had no customers when it was first launched so it was a gamble that paid off for them. The 777 out performs the A340, a side stick has no role in that equation.

I feel it really doesn’t matter weather an aircraft has a side stick or not, it doesn’t make it a better or more technically advanced aircraft. The customer did not want it, period.

The supplier listened to the customer and they said no, simple. Airbus had no customers when it was first launched so it was a gamble that paid off for them. The 777 out performs the A340, a side stick has no role in that equation.

Wys
In the past you’ve accused me of being biased and opinionated towards Boeing.
I think this thread is showing you are a pot that calls the kettle black ;).
It is obvious you are biased towards the Airbus way of things. I supose that is only natural, it is after all the way you now earn your keep. 🙂

But the question of comfort is a subjective one. Everyone has their own preference. One pilot might prefer the feel of a side stick, another might just prefer the yoke.
There are plenty of young pilots who still prefer their Boeings. Its not just the old wrinkleys. :rolleyes:

And the question of what works best is also subjective. In fact I’d say its a moot point
There is nothing wrong with a yoke. Push it forwards and the nose sinks, pull it back and the nose rises. Turn the yok left and the plane turns left, turn it right and the plane turns right. Isn’t that exactly what the side stick does?
The side stick doesn’t have any technological advantage over the Yoke. The only advantage is comfort and that brings us back to the previous paragraph.

As longs as launch customers still ask for a yoke, Boeing will provide. The moment the majority ask for a sidestick, Boeing will provide. It’s as simple as that.

Wys
In the past you’ve accused me of being biased and opinionated towards Boeing.
I think this thread is showing you are a pot that calls the kettle black ;).
It is obvious you are biased towards the Airbus way of things. I supose that is only natural, it is after all the way you now earn your keep. 🙂

But the question of comfort is a subjective one. Everyone has their own preference. One pilot might prefer the feel of a side stick, another might just prefer the yoke.
There are plenty of young pilots who still prefer their Boeings. Its not just the old wrinkleys. :rolleyes:

And the question of what works best is also subjective. In fact I’d say its a moot point
There is nothing wrong with a yoke. Push it forwards and the nose sinks, pull it back and the nose rises. Turn the yok left and the plane turns left, turn it right and the plane turns right. Isn’t that exactly what the side stick does?
The side stick doesn’t have any technological advantage over the Yoke. The only advantage is comfort and that brings us back to the previous paragraph.

As longs as launch customers still ask for a yoke, Boeing will provide. The moment the majority ask for a sidestick, Boeing will provide. It’s as simple as that.

But Boeing kept the control column because the customers wanted it that way, not Boeing. Now there is talk of the 777 flight deck being used on the 787 for cross crew qualification purposes. 😉

…but that’s what I’m saying…people who had never experienced sidesticks refused change. You could argue that ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ but if you live by that motto alone we’re never going to progress like we could do. Was Frank Whittle wrong to invent the jet engine when their was nothing wrong with the piston? No, because he moved the whole industry on.

The sad thing is that the old dinosaurs in TWA, PANAM, Eastern, etc who were probably the ones that forced Boeing down this route are probably now retired from the industry and their ‘but that’s how we’ve always done it’ mentality plagues us for years to come.

BTW – Well done to NASA, the true pioneers of the value of sidesticks and well done to the RRJ team and Bombardier for deciding to ditch the yoke and join the club!

But Boeing kept the control column because the customers wanted it that way, not Boeing. Now there is talk of the 777 flight deck being used on the 787 for cross crew qualification purposes. 😉

…but that’s what I’m saying…people who had never experienced sidesticks refused change. You could argue that ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ but if you live by that motto alone we’re never going to progress like we could do. Was Frank Whittle wrong to invent the jet engine when their was nothing wrong with the piston? No, because he moved the whole industry on.

The sad thing is that the old dinosaurs in TWA, PANAM, Eastern, etc who were probably the ones that forced Boeing down this route are probably now retired from the industry and their ‘but that’s how we’ve always done it’ mentality plagues us for years to come.

BTW – Well done to NASA, the true pioneers of the value of sidesticks and well done to the RRJ team and Bombardier for deciding to ditch the yoke and join the club!