214 squadron Fortress help needed

Welcome to the forum.

I believe Ian Hunt is the fountain of knowledge regarding 214 squadron Fortresses. Sadly due to hospital, I have not finished my sideview of this aeroplane yet.

Try giving Ian a PM.

Baz

Information source….Please.

As a Newbie, I’d first like to say hello to all forum members and to ask for your help.

I am interested in the information quoted below, as I am currently researching this aircraft myself. I have a personal connection to this aircraft, as my Grandfather was Norman Bradley, one of the waist gunners. I was always lead to believe that the aircraft was HB779 so would be eternally grateful if someone could tell me where this information came from and if it is reliable.

I think there’s some confusion between HB779 and HB799, both of which were Fortress III’s (B-17G).

HB779 flew as ‘BU-K’ on 33 ops from 14/10/1944 to 21/2/1945.
HB799 then flew 5 ops as ‘BU-K’ from 27/2/1945 to 14/4/1945.

I think the latter date is the one you’re interested in, when F/L Wynne brought the Fort back alone after he baled his crew out and unfortunately five of them were subsequently murdered. The a/c was damaged which is why I guess it then disappears from the records for a while.

Both a/c then reappear for one final op with 214, on 2/5/1945 – HB779 as ‘BU-P’ and HB799 as ‘BU-L’.

Cheers. M@

Pix

Thanks Baz

Nice pictures! Look forward to seeing the 214 Fort in due course.

I think they reckoned there was no benefit from having the cheek guns fitted so either removed them or they weren’t fitted at conversion in the first place. Relatively few head-on night attacks, and little chance of hitting anything even if you saw the b******s coming!

For similar reasons they also soon did away with the ball turret. So the Corgi die-cast 214 Fortress from a few years ago was wrong there (as well as with the a/c serial which they gave the model and, I think, the nose-art). But apart from that it was a nice model.

Cheers

Ian

Thankyou, (both) Johns

Baz

SpitfireMan:

“I will dig out my copy of “A Thousand Shall Fall” and actually read it!”

You are in for a treat. It is simply possibly the best BC autobiagraphy I have ever read.

This is covered by Chorley in BCL 1945 on page 129 and is appended to the loss of HB803.

John

Thanks again Ian!

Looking at the photos on the 214 Squadron website ( one of the best I’ve seen ) quite a lot have either 1,2 or all 3 painted out. There is a nice close-up with all over painted near the bottom. Its glaring when none are painted as you can see.

I guess they never fitted the guns in the cheek blisters as they would have got in the way of the extra jamming equipment and searchlights would interfere with the operator.

There are other photos of ‘Take it easy’ with colour added on one you might not have seen, added late July 2010, right at the bottom.

here:

http://www.214squadron.org.uk/Crews_and_losses_Fortress.htm

I will dig out my copy of “A Thousand Shall Fall” and actually read it!

If you click on ‘spitfireman’ and scroll down you will see a Coastal Fortress II I recently completed. I will post up my 214 Squadron scribble in a few days time.

BTW I have seen your name (contributing) on that website so please don’t be offended I have linked you back to it!!:D

Appreciate your effort

Baz

214’s Forts

Hi Baz

I agree about the internet!

Y’know, while I’ve been interested in and researching 214 for about 8 years now I’d never noticed that about the nose side windows being overpainted. Since 214 didn’t carry bombs, only jamming equipment, I’ve also never quite found out exactly what the ‘bomb aimer’ did instead. I think it was help with the navigation and the jamming equipment.

But as the nose section contained the Navigator’s compartment my guess is that the windows may have been overpainted for blackout purposes, so he could work ‘with the lights on’. (In Lancs the navigator could curtain-off his compartment, I believe). I don’t know about HB799 in this respect.

I’ve seen that some of the a/c had the lower half of the cockpit side windows painted black, apparently to cut down searchlight dazzle. There’s a good story in Murray Peden’s “A Thousand Shall Fall” about how one of the shorter pilots complained that he couldn’t see out properly! But again I don’t know how common that was, or how long that practice was continued.

Incidentally, you may have come across the photo of John Wynne leaning out of the cockpit of a Fortress with the nose art “Take it Easy”. I’ve not come across any photographic evidence that any of 214’s wartime Forts carried any nose-art and my belief is that that is probably a post-war photo (Radio Warfare Establishment?) – although I’ve not been able to confirm that.

Anyway, once again, hope this helps.

Regards

Ian

Thankyou Ian

The water gets a bit muddy when searching on the internet.

You are right that its F/L Wynnes Fortress I am interested in as I would like to complete a side view profile of her ‘on the night’

I notice that some IIIs had the windows between the cockpit and the bomb aimers cupola ‘painted’ out with black cam. (some didn’t) Do you know the reason for this and if HB799 was blacked out?

(I meant ‘shot up’ and not ‘shot down’ BTW)

Thanks again

Baz

214 Fortresses

Hi Baz

I think there’s some confusion between HB779 and HB799, both of which were Fortress III’s (B-17G).

HB779 flew as ‘BU-K’ on 33 ops from 14/10/1944 to 21/2/1945.
HB799 then flew 5 ops as ‘BU-K’ from 27/2/1945 to 14/4/1945.

I think the latter date is the one you’re interested in, when F/L Wynne brought the Fort back alone after he baled his crew out and unfortunately five of them were subsequently murdered. The a/c was damaged which is why I guess it then disappears from the records for a while.

Both a/c then reappear for one final op with 214, on 2/5/1945 – HB779 as ‘BU-P’ and HB799 as ‘BU-L’.

OK? Hope this helps.

Ian

ps F/L Rix also FTR on the night of 14-15/3/45 (the same night as Wynne’s ‘adventure’). Rix’s a/c was HB802 / ‘BU-O’.