I’ve recently been researching 2 Lt F Williams, who on 2nd April 1918 was shot down with his Observer 2 Lt R Critchley in combat with Albatros and Fokker Dr 1’s. According to the Osprey book ‘Bristol F2 Fighter aces of World War 1’, two Bristol’s were shot down, the other one containing 2 Lt James and 2 Lt Newton, who were also killed. However, they do not appear on the casualty list in the 22 Squadron book ‘Pi in the Sky’, written by a Pilot who was serving with ’22’ and was involved in this combat, nor do they match any 1918 records on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website! So did these two actually exist and survive the war (because they certainly weren’t killed on 2nd April 1918) or are they completely fictitious?
Another riddle is that Captain WFJ Harvey who wrote ‘Pi in the Sky’ mentions the famous photographs taken of ’22’ on 1st April 1918, the first day of the existence of the Royal Air Force. He mentions that on 2nd April, ‘two of the photographed group’ referring to 2 Lt F Williams and 2 Lt R Critchley were those killed, however although 2 Lt R Critchley is photographed, on the two photographs I have captions for 2 Lt F Williams is not, unless he’s on another photograph I haven’t seen, or flying one of the Bristol’s in the photograph of several of them taking off. If anyone has any further information on either of these ‘riddles’, i’d be glad to hear from them.
Best regards, Rob Langham
By: Rlangham - 9th April 2009 at 21:54
The following was posted on The Aerodrome;
On 2 April 1918, 2nd Lt Ernest David Jones and 2nd Lt Robert Francis Newton, No 52 Sqn, were shot down and killed in RE8 A3868, the 75th victory credited to Manfred von Richthofen. The date of the deaths of these two has also been recorded as 3 April – most likely the result of being reported late in the day. Why they shoud have been reported as an F2b crew is a bit of a mystery.
So it appears the author spelt Jones’ name wrong, and for some bizarre reason managed to confuse an RE8 of 52 Squadron with a Bristol of 22. Certainly worrying about information in the rest of the book
By: kev35 - 9th April 2009 at 21:41
Ross.
That’s an E D Jones but Rob’s looking for an E D James, unless E D James is a typo in the book Rob mentions?
I have found an MIC for 2/Lt. Evan Davies Jones RAF who saw previous service with the Army Cyclist Corps.
P S I’m now really confused.
Regards,
kev35
By: kev35 - 9th April 2009 at 21:38
Rob.
I think there is a growing probability that these are your men. I have seen many errors relating to both Squadrons and Army units on CWGC. The time frame fits perfectly. The death of Newtonj on the 3rd of April may have been of wounds received. he may well have been buried and his grave later lost due to renewed fighting. The clincher for me is Ross’s finding that ED James and R F Newton both appear as missing some six weeks after the 2nd of April. Having been unable to E D James at all and only one R F Newton, I suspect it is highly likely that they went missing together.
Just guesswork I know and I will probably turn out to be wrong. Sorry if I’m just muddying the waters.
Regards,
kev35
By: Ross_McNeill - 9th April 2009 at 21:32
E D Jones is on the CWGC
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=145223
As kev said so is R F Newton
http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=779487
Regards
Ross
By: Rlangham - 9th April 2009 at 21:31
Interesting, thanks – however neither of the two books mention any other Squadrons or British aircraft being involved in the fight, and the Osprey book specifically mentions they were Biff crews
By: kev35 - 9th April 2009 at 21:29
Well that would certainly tie in with the Newton I found as he is recorded on the Arras Flying Services Memorial.
Regards,
kev35
By: Ross_McNeill - 9th April 2009 at 21:26
Flight issue 16 May 1918
Lists 2 Lieut R F Newton as missing.
Same list notes
2nd Lieut E D Jones as also missing.
Regards
Ross
By: kev35 - 9th April 2009 at 21:18
Rob.
This is confusing and somewhat intriguing. I can still find no MIC for James or Newton. However, I have found an entry on CWGC for the following:
Second Lieutenant Robert Frances Newton
3rd April 1918
52nd Squadron
Arras Flying Services Memorial.
Whether that’s your man or not I am not absolutely certain. 52 Squadron could be a typo but there was a 52 Squadron operating RE8’s and between 28th March and 3rd May 1918 they were based at Abbeville. Disturbingly, I can’t find an entry for this man on Soldiers died either.
Sorry can’t be more help.
regards,
kev35
By: Ross_McNeill - 9th April 2009 at 21:16
Well R F Newton is listed in the April 1918 Air Force List as an observer officer.
No E D`James only E A and E C.
I’ll see if I can dig out the ORB microfilm tomorrow.
Regards
Ross
By: kev35 - 9th April 2009 at 20:49
Rob.
I can’t even find Medal Index Cards for them let alone anything to do with their deaths. I can only imagine that they are listed under a previous regiment.
Regards,
kev35
By: Rlangham - 9th April 2009 at 20:21
The Osprey book mentions them as 2 Lt ED James and 2 Lt RF Newton.
Cheers, Rob
By: kev35 - 9th April 2009 at 20:06
Rob.
Do you have initials or any other details for Newton and James?
I’ve potentially found 15 MIC’s for RAF personnel called Newton and 37 for James. I’ll see if I can narrow it down.
Regards,
kev35
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April 9, 2009 at 7:43 pm