(4/3/10) Russia ships China 15 S-300 missile systems

Volatile Middle East politics can turn on a dime, or change on a drop of a hat.

It’s very possible the F-16s of Israel may have to fight with the F-16s of Egypt. Or the Merkava tanks of Israel may have to confront the M-1 Abram tanks of Egypt. (Egypt manufactures its own M-1 Abram tanks, and have one of the largest F-16 inventory in the world)

Well, at least it looks like a level playing field.

I doubt either of those nations would want to ruin relations with the US though,(or hurt their trade relations for that matter.) Neither of those nations have the extreme ideologies that would cause them to ignore the economic disadvantages of such a move.

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… Israel get along just fine with Jordan and Egypt. …

Volatile Middle East politics can turn on a dime, or change on a drop of a hat.

It’s very possible the F-16s of Israel may have to fight with the F-16s of Egypt. Or the Merkava tanks of Israel may have to confront the M-1 Abram tanks of Egypt. (Egypt manufactures its own M-1 Abram tanks, and have one of the largest F-16 inventory in the world)

Well, at least it looks like a level playing field.

Oh, I don’t know, how about attempting to casually dismiss anyone who dares to think differently with personal attacks like “bat$#t crazy”. :rolleyes:

Kettle and pot tend to spring to mind.

“Its perfectly fine when we do it and completely unjustifiable when someone else does it.”

And American and Israel never, ever dream of doing anything of the sort. Ever. I mean its not like America ever supported and armed Iraq when they were gassing Iranians by the thousand. Israel never ever set off bombs in foreign countries or assassinate people around the world. American never armed terrorists in Afghanistan. Israel never break international laws and American would never ever dream of abducting people off the streets to have them tortured. :rolleyes:

Ah yes, more examples of that finely tuned moral compass at work I see. Lets leave aside the monumental injustice and brutal way the Palestinians were driven from their homes to pay for european crimes, but a war of self defense becomes a war of conquest and aggression when you seize land and aim to keep them.

Just because someone tried to attack you does not give you the right to go and mug him after you had beaten him.

Oh yes, like how America was so fair and magnanimous towards the Iranians and respected their democratically elected government in the past. :rolleyes:

Last I checked, it took more courage to drive a car full of explosives into a target then it does to click on target on a computer screen and guide a missile onto it.

There are many words to describe people who blow themselves up and more for those who do it to target civilians. Take you pick of brainwashed, butchers, evil, stupid, inhuman, but cowardly is not one of the words you can use with any true justification and its a sign of how indoctrinated you have become yourself that you would use such a word so easily.

And how popular is Israel in the eyes of the general population of these pillars or democracy in the region? How popular are the rulers of Egypt and Jordan amongst their own people? And how much of their willingness to accommodate Israel is out of real friendship or fear of Israeli bombs?

As much as you would dearly love for Ahmadinejad to be the crazy despot who rants nothing by gibberish, the reality is that his words find massive resonance and traction within huge segments on society in the entire middle east and he is hugely popular because of his defiance.

Instead of doing the rational and smart thing of sitting down and wondering how such extreme views could have found such popular appeal, you dismiss the evidence and aim to kill the messenger by branding Ahmadinejad as a madman and Iran as a menace and advocate more of the same failed policies of peace through conquest and oppression and respect from fear and intimidation.

What a laughable suggestion. Israel not destabilizing the region? The only ‘stability’ they bring to the region is created with death and terror. They make anyone who dares to not bend their knee their enemy and hunt them down with great ruthlessness and enthusiasm and bomb any country who do not yield into submission. Yes, a very stabilizing force indeed.

All you have as ‘evidence’ of Iran being a menace are speeches for domestic consumption, then that is just plain stupid. George W called Iran a member of the ‘axis of evil’ and all but threatened to attack them. Its just words. Israel HAS threatened to bomb Iran. Are they not also a menace by your definition?

Oh, of course not, because there is one set of rules with America and friends and another set for everyone else. :rolleyes:

Ha! You really want to play this game? For any single event you can point to as where Iran ‘started’ this, I bet I can find one before that which the Iranians can point to as evidence of Israel or America who really ‘started’ it.

The history of this is such a mess only one who has an agenda would dare try to point to any one thing as the real cause of the hostilities between Iran and Israel/America.

It is because of people like you that the middle east is in the sorry state it is in today. And I don’t mean just people like you in the west but also your exact opposites in Iran and other middle eastern countries.

People like you are so blinded by hate and so sure of the righteousness of your cause that there is no room for questions or alternatives. Its “stand firm and not yield an inch” and “any and all means are justified to stop our enemies”. All the while you are blissfully ignoring the fact that you are sitting on a pressure cooker and all the while you are upping the pressure of popular resentment to the point now where it is fast turning to hatred.

My question is, do you think you can keep the muslim world and peoples suppressed for all eternity? Because that is fast becoming the only option left to you if you continue on your present course.

this thread is reported for not having anything to do with China receiving S-300 missiles. No need to you to go on a typing crusade to justify your political views.

Think of this from another aspect too: imagine a “friendly” , “normal” Iran , or imagine the israelis settling the territory disputes and make peace with palestinians ,syrians etc , all those juicy tens( even hunders over the years) of BILLIONS of $ in defence spending in the region and in the states to counter those ” threats ” will go down the drain…someone is making a helluva load of cash on the back of those “threats”.

Food for thought.

It’s hard to make peace with folks that won’t accept any compromises, and expect that only one side make all the concessions. Israel was willing to discuss terms with the Palestinians on many occasions, but they’d only accept 100% solutions. 50/50 was never acceptable.

And anyone who thinks like that is demonstrating nothing but brainless arrogance.

Please explain. I’m looking forward to this.

Sounds a lot like America and Israel but to name a few.

We tend to meddle in the affairs of people who train, and arm folks that kill Americans.

More important? By whose standard and what rational other then to try and single Iran out with a select set of arbitrary and illogical criteria?

Oh I dunno, arming insurgents in Iraq, and meddling in the success of the democratically elected government next door. Arming training Hezbollah terrorist, etc… who then meddle in Lebanon and Israel. Casually mentioning on numerous occasions that Israel should be wiped off the map, etc…

What kind of stupid illogic is that? Just because you were attacked in the past it gives you carte blanche to launch wars of aggression?

That’s an “interesting” way of looking at it. You mean like when nations on all sides of Israel were massing their forces on the border, in preparation to strike, and Israel aggressively kicked all of their butts. That kind of war of aggression?

Well thats entirely down to personal opinion now isn’t it?

Well you’re certainly entitled to your opinion.:cool:

Oh really? That just shows how close and indoctrinated your mind is.

I’m very open minded towards people that want to get along with other countries, and live peacefully. If on the other hand you make irresponsible statements calling for the destruction of other countries, and arm cowards that attack women and children, then I’m not particularly sympathetic to their cause.

What if after they got the bomb, Iran offered to fully, verifiably disarm in exchange for the same from Israel? Surely a middle east totally free of nuclear weapons is better then anyone having them?

Israel get along just fine with Jordan and Egypt. Perhaps Iran, Syria, etc.. could take a few pointers from their model, rather than making inflammatory remarks, and hoping for the return of the 12th Imam.

Israel is not threatening or hostile because they haven’t launched any attacks on Iran, yet Iran is a menace because even though they have not launched any attacks themselves, they ‘meddled’ with the internal affairs of others?

Iran is a menace because they destabilize the entire region. Israel doesn’t. They’re not out to increase their sphere of influence or increase their territory.

Yes, of course Iran does not feel threatened at all, all those veiled and overt threats from Israel of military attacks on Iran is just a bit of banter and western support of anti-government protestors in Iran is not meddling and not intended to destabilize and weaken the government of Iran.

Which came as a result of Iranian threats. It wasn’t the other way around.

Have you even thought these arguments through yourself or did they just come straight from Fox?

Clever.:rolleyes:

Think of this from another aspect too: imagine a “friendly” , “normal” Iran , or imagine the israelis settling the territory disputes and make peace with palestinians ,syrians etc , all those juicy tens( even hundreds over the years) of BILLIONS of $ in defence spending in the region and in the states to counter those ” threats ” will go down the drain…someone is making a helluva load of cash on the back of those “threats”.

Food for thought.

Anyone that thinks a nuclear armed Iran is a good thing is bat$#t crazy.

And anyone who thinks like that is demonstrating nothing but brainless arrogance.

You’ve got an extremist regime, that sponsors terror groups, and meddles in other countries affairs every bit as much, as you all complain about other countries, oppresses its own people who by every indication are nowhere near the ideological stance of the leaders……

Sounds a lot like America and Israel but to name a few.

The more important question is- how many countries has Iran meddled in the affairs of, or sponsored terrorists in? You don’t have to do the dirty work yourself, to be fully culpable.

More important? By whose standard and what rational other then to try and single Iran out with a select set of arbitrary and illogical criteria?

When did America, Britain and Russia ever stop meddling in the affairs of others? How may coups have these countries sponsored and how many of these countries have directly financed and armed terrorist groups? But them these pillars of virtue and righteousness went even further then evil Iran when they needed to didn’t they?

How many times has Israel been attacked in the last 60yrs,

What kind of stupid illogic is that? Just because you were attacked in the past it gives you carte blanche to launch wars of aggression?

and since you brought it up- how many warheads does Israel have? At least if they’ve got them, they’ve demonstrated a great deal of restraint.
Do you think Iran, Syria, or groups that they support would act nearly as sensibly?

Well thats entirely down to personal opinion now isn’t it? Iran has chemical weapons, but when was the last time they used them?

Any sensible person, western or not should be able to see that a nuclear armed Iran, doesn’t make the middle east or the World a more safe and secure place.

Oh really? That just shows how close and indoctrinated your mind is.

What if after they got the bomb, Iran offered to fully, verifiably disarm in exchange for the same from Israel? Surely a middle east totally free of nuclear weapons is better then anyone having them?

When’s the last time Israel and Iran fought? What Israeli aggression is Iran trying to counter?

You are so pathetically transparent its laughable.

Israel is not threatening or hostile because they haven’t launched any attacks on Iran, yet Iran is a menace because even though they have not launched any attacks themselves, they ‘meddled’ with the internal affairs of others?

Such hypocrisy is starting to make the former Iraqi information minister sound reasonable. :rolleyes:

Yes, of course Iran does not feel threatened at all, all those veiled and overt threats from Israel of military attacks on Iran is just a bit of banter and western support of anti-government protestors in Iran is not meddling and not intended to destabilize and weaken the government of Iran.

Have you even thought these arguments through yourself or did they just come straight from Fox?

Off topic and baseless.

more off topic than-

I’m sure Iran was glad to hear all the technical problems have been solved…

?

How many countries has Iran attacked in that last 60 years? How many has Israel? How many nuclear warheads does Iran have? How many does Israel have?

The more important question is- how many countries has Iran meddled in the affairs of, or sponsored terrorists in? You don’t have to do the dirty work yourself, to be fully culpable.

How many times has Israel been attacked in the last 60yrs, and since you brought it up- how many warheads does Israel have? At least if they’ve got them, they’ve demonstrated a great deal of restraint. Do you think Iran, Syria, or groups that they support would act nearly as sensibly?

Anyone not blinded by brainwashing or who has any semblance of objective opinion would be able to see the shameless doubt standards and arrogance of the west at play here.

Any sensible person, western or not should be able to see that a nuclear armed Iran, doesn’t make the middle east or the World a more safe and secure place.

and to seek a credible deterrence against Israeli aggression.

When’s the last time Israel and Iran fought? What Israeli aggression is Iran trying to counter?

Anyone that thinks a nuclear armed Iran is a good thing is bat$#t crazy. You’ve got an extremist regime, that sponsors terror groups, and meddles in other countries affairs every bit as much, as you all complain about other countries, oppresses its own people who by every indication are nowhere near the ideological stance of the leaders……

IIRC Iran never signed the NPT treaty (and what sane country with ambitions would)?
Anyways, stupid of Russia to sell these systems to China. Its just a matter of time before they figure out how to copy it, and then will sell it to whoever is willing to pay at 50% the cost.
So, either Russia is really short on cash right now, or they are so confident in the new S-400 that they dont regard a potential loss of S-300PMU2 technology a major threat.

When China finally decides to make a push to the north to coquer the eastern parts of Siberia this sale will most likely come back to bite the Russians in the ass.

They did sign…only India,Pakistan and Israel did not sign. North Korea signed and then withdrew.

As long as Russia has enough nukes to turn the world to glass..no one is going to invade her.

Iran cannot seek nuclear weapons…they signed away the rights to that when they signed the NPT.

IIRC Iran never signed the NPT treaty (and what sane country with ambitions would)?
Anyways, stupid of Russia to sell these systems to China. Its just a matter of time before they figure out how to copy it, and then will sell it to whoever is willing to pay at 50% the cost.
So, either Russia is really short on cash right now, or they are so confident in the new S-400 that they dont regard a potential loss of S-300PMU2 technology a major threat.

When China finally decides to make a push to the north to coquer the eastern parts of Siberia this sale will most likely come back to bite the Russians in the ass.

Off topic and baseless.

How many countries has Iran attacked in that last 60 years? How many has Israel? How many nuclear warheads does Iran have? How many does Israel have?

Anyone not blinded by brainwashing or who has any semblance of objective opinion would be able to see the shameless doubt standards and arrogance of the west at play here.

The only true crime Iran has ever committed was to have the audacity to object when the CIA overthrew their democratically elected government and to seek a credible deterrence against Israeli aggression.

Yes double standards and propaganda at its best. Before it was the big scary Russian bear, then when the Cold war ended ,they had to find some new scary-crows, Iraq, Iran, Syria and so on. Gotta love behind doors politics .:mad:

( Sorry for the offtopic, couldnt help it)

Off topic and baseless.

How many countries has Iran attacked in that last 60 years? How many has Israel? How many nuclear warheads does Iran have? How many does Israel have?

Anyone not blinded by brainwashing or who has any semblance of objective opinion would be able to see the shameless doubt standards and arrogance of the west at play here.

The only true crime Iran has ever committed was to have the audacity to object when the CIA overthrew their democratically elected government and to seek a credible deterrence against Israeli aggression.

Iran cannot seek nuclear weapons…they signed away the rights to that when they signed the NPT.

Selling those to Iran is an irresponsible thing to do anyhow.

Off topic and baseless.

How many countries has Iran attacked in that last 60 years? How many has Israel? How many nuclear warheads does Iran have? How many does Israel have?

Anyone not blinded by brainwashing or who has any semblance of objective opinion would be able to see the shameless doubt standards and arrogance of the west at play here.

The only true crime Iran has ever committed was to have the audacity to object when the CIA overthrew their democratically elected government and to seek a credible deterrence against Israeli aggression.

Selling those to Iran is an irresponsible thing to do anyhow.

depends on the point of view you look at it.

Will china be buying the Pantsir 1 to protect the S-300 units?

I’m sure Iran was glad to hear all the technical problems have been solved… :rolleyes:

Selling those to Iran is an irresponsible thing to do anyhow.

I’m sure Iran was glad to hear all the technical problems have been solved… :rolleyes:

the ususal suspects, 8 battalions acros from Taiwan. The remaining are probably at Beijing, Shanghai, tri-gorges dam or pearl river delta.

contract worth between 1.8 to 2.25 billion usd.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6310WG20100402

Can these be S-300PMU-2 “Favorits”?(ASCC code SA-20B)

Yes, they are.