578 Sqn Halifax crash details

Knowing him to be the font of all aviation knowledge relating to east Anglia , well the bit around Lowestoft anyway ! , I asked BobC for his comments on the thread which he has posted above for which thanks Bob . He also added the following in his reply to me ;

“Halifax B.III LK846 LK-R crashed in an orchard 330 yds S of Castle Farm, Rigbourne Hill, Beccles (Suffolk) at 1935 hours on 3 Aug 1944, whilst en route to Nieppe Forest (suspected V-1 storage site)

Eric Fox DFC (driver) told me in 1995 they flew through prop-wash from a formation of returning USAAF aircraft over Norfolk and this – in his opinion – damaged the control surfaces. His MUG reported one aileron was pointing upwards at an odd angle and the a/c became increasingly difficult to control. He baled the crew out and headed for the coast. He was unable to trim the a/c and the first time he released the controls to jump the control column was shuddering “like a butterfly” and he had to sit down and try something else. The aircraft kept pulling up and stalling and he was able to jump when this occurred by timing his climb onto the seat right. The a/c dived vertically into the ground and the bombs exploded making a crater 60 ft x 30 ft. Fortunately there was no damage apart from broken windows. The blast wall on top of a CD building in Norwich was reportedly cracked by the blast! Seconds more and the crash would have been in Beccles – a very lucky escape.

I met Eric Fox and took him round Beccles in 1998, to the site (now built on)and to Barsham where he had a reunion with the first person he met on landing in 1944. He died two years later.

I had a few small fragments found on a nearby field in 1974 which I mounted and presented Eric with at Flixton. I thought I had a cylinder head I tripped over on grassland near the site in 1973, but it is now in the LWMM (Lowestoft). There was one big lump found in a garden at Rigbourne Hill in the 80s which was donated to Flixton, but this too, is now at LWMM.”

On a personal note I attended several 578 reunions at Burn as well as squadron memorial dedications usually in the company of Bob and Eunice Davies , Bob was ex-578 before going to 214 and B-17’s at Oulton , and have myself met Eric Fox . It is sad that with the passing of time those that once seemed immortal are being proved to be mortal after all and that The Many of Bomber Command are becoming fewer by the year .

This is all rather interesting as I’ve done quite a bit of research into this one. The actual crash site of LK-R was in an orchard 330 yds S of Castle Farm, Beccles.The crash-site now has flats built on it but there are stories of wreckage being found during building work. A few years ago we took Eric Fox (alas, now deceased) to see the spot and also to Barsham, where he landed by parachute, to meet the first person he spoke to on landing. I gave the only few fragments I found in a field adjacent to the site in 1974 to Eric when he visited in a presentation at Flixton. I THINK I may still have a cylinder head I literally stumbled on in 1973 during my first visit to the area. I’d certainly be interested in exchanging gen on this incident if anyone would care to PM me. BC

The exact location (with wartime map reference) may well be recorded on the Bomber Command Loss Card held by DoRIS at the RAF Museum Hendon. http://www.rafmuseum.org.uk/research/default/archive-collection/aircraft-records.aspx It might be worth dropping them a line or paying them a visit.

For those who are interested in this incident I’ve added a web-page of Flying Officer Fox’s report on the crash. It is remarkable how composed he and the rear gunner write about what was a very shaky doo.

http://578squadron.org.uk/squadron/fox.html

Heroes the lot of them. The loss of aileron control should not cast anything negative on the 578 squadron groundcrews who were dedicated to their aircraft and even won the Bristol Shield from the Bristol aero engine company for their standards of maintenance. (The were suggestions of sabotage at RAF Burn. At one point a guard was placed on all aircraft).

As to finding the crash site. F/O Eric Fox was making for the sea near Lowestoft. The Halifax came down near the coastline leaving a crater well over thirty feet deep and sixty-five feet across near the USAAF base of Halesworth. So some detectives may be able to locate this. I doubt if there will be much more than small fragments left from a fully fueled and bombed up Halifax impacting from 8,000 feet.

F/O Eric fox and crew

I know its thread drift but the Boscombe Down report on Halifax rudder stalling is interesting reading http://www.jp137.com/lts/dishax.pdf unfortunately in nearly every case the crews were unable to leave the aircraft due to the violence of the spin. Was LK846 a casualty of this problem?

Richard

This is very unlikely – the final rectangular shape of the fins cured the rudder stall problem and these were standard on the Mk.III.

Hello Paul

we have already been in touch regarding the Flight Engineer George Hodgson, and I am corresponding with Des at the moment.
so yes, it is all coming together…………….
what I really want is a fragment of LK846 to display !

Jules

Hi Jules,

I look after the 578 squadron association website. I don’t know the exact location of the crash but there is a good write-up of the incident in “Based at Burn MKII” the 578 Squadron book. The article is written by the pilot F/O Eric Fox and the rear gunner Sergeant Darky Day. I could scan it to you and send it to you if you like…

I also have the email address of Des Hollis the squadron archivist, he could probably tell you more.

I’ve tried to pm you but it says that I’ve turned off my private messaging…. I can’t find the option to turn it back on… When I’ve sussed that out I will let you know.

Paul

Hi Jules,

I look after the 578 squadron association website. I don’t know the exact location of the crash but there is a good write-up of the incident in “Based at Burn MKII” the 578 Squadron book. The article is written by the pilot F/O Eric Fox and the rear gunner Sergeant Darky Day. I could scan it to you and send it to you if you like…

I also have the email address of Des Hollis the squadron archivist, he could probably tell you more.

I’ve tried to pm you but it says that I’ve turned off my private messaging…. I can’t find the option to turn it back on… When I’ve sussed that out I will let you know.

Paul

I know its thread drift but the Boscombe Down report on Halifax rudder stalling is interesting reading http://www.jp137.com/lts/dishax.pdf unfortunately in nearly every case the crews were unable to leave the aircraft due to the violence of the spin. Was LK846 a casualty of this problem?

Richard

The Record of Events for August 1944 doesn’t add a great deal to what is posted above. The summary doesn’t add anything, I’m afraid.

Jules,

If you go to the National Archives ‘Discovery’ website and enter “578 Squadron Operations Record Book” in the search box, and scroll down the results, you will find the monthly Record of Events for August 1944. The search facility is a little sensitive – if you abbreviate “Squadron” to “Sqn” you will get no results!! The document can be downloaded for a cost of £3.30. There are also ‘Summary of Events’ records which might prove of assistance.

Hello Jules,

You can’t download the ORB for free, the monthly sections have to be paid for. You can however view it for free if you visit The National Archives at Kew in person. (or get a kind person to view it for you)

Thanks Alan

that’s very useful. are you saying that anyone can download the entire ORB for free ?

I would like to find out now if any group has recovered any remains of this aircraft. I have a connection with the Flight Engineer, Hogdson.

kind regards

Jules

Bomber Command Losses, Vol.5, 1944, p.368

Halifax III LK846 LK-R
F/O E W Fox
Sgt H Hodgson
P/O P Goldsmith
F/Sgt G F Howatson
F/Sgt F W Middleton, Injured
F/Sgt D J Johnson RCAF
Sgt L N Dey

“T/o 1818 Burn to attack a flying-bomb storage site. Outbound, became uncontrollable and was abandoned, crashing 1935 about 2 miles E from Beccles in Suffolk. F/S Middleton was taken to Southwold Hospital”

Target is given as Foret de Nieppe.

The primary source for information will be the No.578 Sqn ORB, downloadable from the National Archives, as well as the F-1180 from the RAF Museum.

Bomber Command Losses, Vol.5, 1944, p.368

Halifax III LK846 LK-R
F/O E W Fox
Sgt H Hodgson
P/O P Goldsmith
F/Sgt G F Howatson
F/Sgt F W Middleton, Injured
F/Sgt D J Johnson RCAF
Sgt L N Dey

“T/o 1818 Burn to attack a flying-bomb storage site. Outbound, became uncontrollable and was abandoned, crashing 1935 about 2 miles E from Beccles in Suffolk. F/S Middleton was taken to Southwold Hospital”

Target is given as Foret de Nieppe.

The primary source for information will be the No.578 Sqn ORB, downloadable from the National Archives, as well as the F-1180 from the RAF Museum.