603 Squadron Spitfires – 1945 onwards

Thank you Daren ! Appreciate your help !

Hugh Ramsay

I’ll have a look to see if I still have it. I probably do!

Thank you Martyn. Yes, moving house can mean you can’t quite put your finger on something as you’d have been able to do previously !

I’ll see if I can send you a PM with more information ;

Thanks & Regards

Hugh

Hi Hugh,

I will see if I can find them again! I’ve moved house since my previous posts and I have temporarily lost sight of quite a a few things, as you do however, hopefully Darren may well still have his copies, if I can’t locate them!!! Not sure about your pilot though, can you PM me a name?

Martyn

GYD

Mk. XVIe Versus Mk. 22

Just noticed that on Page 400 (Appendix 13 “Operational Aircraft”) of Volume II of “The Greatest Squadron Of them All” it indicates an overlap from February 1948 till June 1948 when both marks of Spitfire were on strength with Squadron at same time. It would mean, firstly, that “my” Pilot’s first flight in Mk. 22 is more reflective of his having joined the Squadron as opposed to it’s first use of the type, secondly, date in caption for photograph on Page 303 could be correct (though mark of Spitfire is wrong) and, thirdly, if the photograph on SCRAN website (ID: 000-000-128-288-C) captioned as showing Combined Forth/Clyde Air Defence Exercise at Turnhouse purports to be from March 1949 then aircraft should be Mk. 22’s 9this appears to be corroborated by information on Page 302) but they’re camouflaged & with RAJ squadron code and interestingly, at least, nearest aircraft to camera has rear fuselage band. The latter can also be seen on the aircraft shown in top photograph on Page 301 & 302 from above-mentioned book. In contrast, lower photograph on Page 302 shows Mk. 22 (you can see first character of aircraft serial number as being a “P”) though it’s captioned as Mk. XVI, which is camouflaged, has RAJ squadron code but no rear fuselage band by looks of it.

To be honest, I’d hitherto always thought of the Mk. 22’s in High Speed Silver finish only.

Some discussion and debate as to their spinner colour. Black or red ?

Best Regards

Hugh

—————————————————————————————————————————————

Sorry to enter or contribute to this interesting thread so late in the day. I came across it by chance (as you do !) when looking for information on 603 Squadron Spitfires. I was recently loaned the “Pilot’s Flying Log Book” documents belonging to a former post war Pilot with 603 Squadron who lived near to me and whose family I know. He passed away several years ago now sadly.

His first entry for Spitfire Mk. 22 is dated 12th July 1950 and curiously, perhaps, on the following day the identity of the aircraft flown is written as RAD-D with code RAD belonging to 504 Squadron RAF so, perhaps, that was source of some if not all of 603 Squadron’s machines. Flights in Mk.22’s go on till 1st July 1951 (see Page 309 of the below-mentioned book, “E formation over Turnhouse to mark HRH Princess Elizabeth becoming Honorary Air Commodore – in Pilot’s log book he’s somewhat disrespectively written “Liz Formation” !) with Pilot then transitioning to Vampire FB.5’s. Individual Mk. 22 aircraft letters flown B, D, E, F, G, H, J, K, L, M, O, P & Q. There’s no reference to Mk. XVIe’s but that will be because the Pilot in question only joined 603 Squadron in 1950. His first flight in Spitfire was 6th April 1945 (no Mark given) at an OTU then Spitfire Mk. Vb’s, Vc’s & IX’s.

Given the date of this Pilot’s first flight in Mk. 22 can photograph of camouflaged mchines on SCRAN website be of those given date attributed to photograph or are those Mk. XVIe’s instead ?

Interestingly, if we look at the photograph on Page 303 of Volume II of “The Greatest Squadron Of them All” we see two Mk. 22’s (mis-identified as being Mk. XVI’s and date of March 1949 given in caption is doubtful if not simply wrong) side by side with different styles of marking. One in foreground has fighter bars whereas one behind it has the XT squdron code arrangement. This contemporaneous mix is further confirmed when looking at the stored surplus ex. 603 Squadron Mk. 22’s that are part of the thread. Note also the closeness of the aircraft’s serial number to fighter bars in photograph of PK570 (F) compared to the gap shown in photograph of PK433 (Q) whilst stencil style for letter “O” in photograph of PK411 appears rather unusual.

Such disparities in appearance certainly help keep us modellers on our toes !

Martyn . . . I’d also like to have access to sketches you made of the models that were on display at Turnhouse and I’d be interested to know if you came across the Pilot whose log books I’ve been given to have look thru’ whilst you were on the Squadron if it would be alright to send something to you by e-mail outside of the forum please.

Hope to have helped ;

Kind Regards

Hugh

Martyn – yes, I would definitely be interested in those. Will send you a PM.

I did a model of RW393 in its gate-guard colours, although with XT-A applied on the port side, rather than A-XT as it should have been.

Daz,

During my brief but very enjoyable time on 603, a large number of excellently made 1/48 scale models of the squadrons aircraft were donated to the Squadron and housed in large glass cabinets within the entrance to THQ, I took the liberty of making a few sketches for my own use regarding the schemes etc. as I intended to do a similar thing! I can gladly copy and pass onto you if you require, pm me?

The Mk XVIe’s were apparently donated from 229 Sqn at Coltishall and the model representing this type was coded RAJ-M serial SL609. I can’t see from any of my records any other pictures of the XVI’s but according to the afore mentioned book on their history, the following aircraft were also used by the squadron:

SL561/RAJ-H, SL564/RAJ-G, SL719/RAJ-N, TB625/RAJ-E, TE354/RAJ-L, TE437-J, TE457 RAJ-J, TE463/RAJ-P and TE477/RAJ-J. There are quite a few more listed but, without the individual codes so may have been using the XT codes (? – no pictures, yet!).

Regards,

Martyn,

GYD

Thanks for that one. It’s a start, at least! Don’t think I’ve ever seen one in those markings before.

There is a photo of Mk XVI TE437 RAJ/J Turnhouse circa 1947 in Camouflage and Markings No 1 RAF Fighters 1945 – 1950 UK Based, Paul Lucas, Guidline Publications.

Ooops, managed to post the same link twice – this one shows that mk 16 in post war colours:

http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-128-287-C&scache=5igzddx55r&searchdb=scran

There is a photo of Mk XVI TE437 RAJ/J Turnhouse circa 1947 in Camouflage and Markings No 1 RAF Fighters 1945 – 1950 UK Based, Paul Lucas, Guidline Publications.

Thanks for that, Martyn. I’ve seen a couple of photos the Mk.22s with the check markings, and my Airfix Mk.22 (1/72) was done with those colours.

I had read that they used Mk.XVIs in the last months of the war, but never come across any photos to confirm that. The only one that does pop up is, of course, Spitfire RW393 on the gate at Turnhouse!

They did however, change from the two letter (XT) codes to three letter codes (RAJ) in common with most post war Auxiliary/Reserve squadrons on reformation. When colours started to become popular, the Mk22’s used the red/light blue checks and black border markings either side of the roundel. This marking has often been misinterpreted as light/dark blue checks but, as an ex 603 ‘Auld Reekie’ Regular, I can assure you that the colours reflect the city of Edinburgh (red and black) and the light blue represents the Aux AF – if that’s of any help?

As confirmed by the rather nice colour pic of their Vampies on the SCRAN website (Whose preview images seem to be getting smaller and smaller!)

http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-128-296-C&scache=5i5km34bkw&searchdb=scran

They also have a couple of shots of 603 Spits – mk 22

http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-128-288-C&scache=5i5km34bkw&searchdb=scran

RE codes – 602 had RAI, then went to LO before going to their Grey Douglas tartan squadron bands – I presume 603 went the same way (RAJ – XT – fighter bars)

Further to the above, I found this:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?108119-1950-s-60-s-Archive-Part-19-RAF-Miscellany

GYD

Daz,

Even the book(s) ‘The Greatest Squadron of Them All’ on their history, only have a few grainy black and white shots of their post war Spits, mainly mk22’s wrongly identified as MkXVIe’s!!

They did however, change from the two letter (XT) codes to three letter codes (RAJ) in common with most post war Auxiliary/Reserve squadrons on reformation. When colours started to become popular, the Mk22’s used the red/light blue checks and black border markings either side of the roundel. This marking has often been misinterpreted as light/dark blue checks but, as an ex 603 ‘Auld Reekie’ Regular, I can assure you that the colours reflect the city of Edinburgh (red and black) and the light blue represents the Aux AF – if that’s of any help?

Martyn

GYD