617 Squadron P51 Mustang

OK so as a best guess this would be the look for that 617 Mustang III? Or is it HB837

Dan

It seems rather strange that no pictures seem to exist of a unique aircraft serving for over 3 months with a well-publicised unit like 617………..

…Which was doing a lot of top secret work, maybe?
The pix we have of 617Sqn have come out mainly due to the work they did, yes? My point being that whilst some pictures were taken by aircrew using personal cameras they have been mainly lousy in quality, so the best quality pix come from official sources; if there was no reason to photograph a specific airframe because there was nothing special about it, then why photograph it? Film was at a premium then, so they wouldn’t go wasting it on just another fighter, even if it was on a bomber field.

Flood

Dan J,

Nice artwork, which puts me in mind to get a Tamiya kit out of the cupboard. If it wore squadron codes, though, surely by that date it would have been coded KC , not AJ . By that time AJ belonged to the USAAF’s 356th Fighter Squadron (of Richard E Turner & Short Fuse Sallee fame). However, it may have carried only carried the individual letter.

On the basis of logic rather than evidence, I think I would go with red for the code, simply because the code would have been done at unit level and that’s the colour they would be accustomed to use. As for the undersides, I doubt they would go to the trouble of repaining the underside of the aeroplane, and late-war night-fighters used greys and greens with no evident problems so I’d speculate that the Medium Sea Grey is most defensible unless someone comes up with a well founded memory or a photo.

Cheers Ian (EN830), that would be amazing if you could write to Sqn Ldr Trent. If he was dropping tallboys,,, whatever he has to say will be of immense interest to me. Thanks once again!!!!
Willie

We have a former 617 Sqn pilot living here in Jersey Ken Trent, he’s a relation of Sqn Ldr Leonard Trent VC who was award the Cross for the disastrous 487 Sqn Ventura raid in May 1943. I’m not sure if he was with the Squadron at the same time as Cheshire, I do know that he dropped several tallboys and maybe a Grand Slam.

I could drop him a line if you want ?????

By way of a reply to Swiss Mustangs’ question,,, apparently Cheshire decided that in light of the successes he was having target marking with a Mosquito,, then it followed that something even faster and smaller, i.e. a Mustang, would achieve even better results. Instead of going through the proper channels, he approached a friend in the USAF and asked if he could “borrow” an aircraft. They, with typical US style, agreed immediately, gave him a few minutes instruction on the cockpit drills and sent him on his way. If my information is correct, he then learnt to fly, navigate etc., on his way to the target,,, marked it “dead centre” and then worried about how he was going to land on his way back!
Incidentally,, J.B. Tait even used himself as the aiming point on one aborted raid, by waggling his wings to make the light glint off them and getting the circling bomb aimers to aim at him. It didn’t work!!! Personally I don’t think I’d relish being underneath several Tallboy’s all whistling their way directly at me????

Just did these quick as the thread got me thinking.

Not sure obviously on the camo or the codes. Do you suppose the Mustang had a black undersides? Could try that too.

Dan

Thanks for the help guys! Much appreciated!!!!!
Regards
Willie

Thank you mmitch – another welcome entry to my database (still haven’t had time to work through all the Air Britain serial books….

43-24929; P-51C-10-NT;to RAF; HB937

Martin

In ‘Beyond the Dams to the Tirpitz’ by Alan Cooper there is a list of aircraft operated by 617.
It lists one Mustang. HB937 code letter, N. Sailed on the SS Brady to the UK 18/5/44. Delivered to 617 sqn 25/6/44. transfered to 541 sqn 14/5/45. scrapped 14/3/1947.
mmitch.

Hi

the bomb racks of the P-51 could both be used for bombs and external fuel tanks – there were no provisions for any centerline stores, as already said by landyman.

Not very familiar with 617 Sqdn, I assume that when, as you said, the ‘borrowed’ Mustang was used on several occasions, it received some sort of RAF markings.

My question here in fact is why ‘borrowing’ a P-51 from the USAAF when the RAF had Mustangs (Merlin engined) in their inventory, too ?

Just my 2 cents
Martin / Swiss Mustangs

I’d suspect that it was in fact an RAF Merlin Mustang and that over time it evolved from that into a ‘borrowed from the USAAF” Mustang, when I suppose it was a lend lease bird instead.

Dan

Hi

the bomb racks of the P-51 could both be used for bombs and external fuel tanks – there were no provisions for any centerline stores, as already said by landyman.

Not very familiar with 617 Sqdn, I assume that when, as you said, the ‘borrowed’ Mustang was used on several occasions, it received some sort of RAF markings.

My question here in fact is why ‘borrowing’ a P-51 from the USAAF when the RAF had Mustangs (Merlin engined) in their inventory, too ?

Just my 2 cents
Martin / Swiss Mustangs

I doubt anything could’ve been carried on the centreline as it would’ve blocked the airflow to the radiator.

as far as i know the P51 could not carry a centerline tank, it did have a very good range without external fuel though.
hope this helps.
Greg