65 hp Versus the Atlantic

O/T (2) On an unrelated matter I never worked out exactly where RAF West Kirby was although a lot of people I knew in England seem to have been demobbed through there.

Forgive me if I have misunderstood the problem, but does this help?

Nice One

Glad you liked my little piece on the Hinchliffe saga, I hope it made up for ruining the Cosford Lincoln tale on the Ghost thread! You lived in W Kirby, amazing coincidence. (Hawker Hart ditched in Marine Lake – definitely salvaged!)

Maybe we should revive a “lost” thread. Have we looked to see how many failed Atlantic crossing attempts there were between 1918 and (say) 1938? I would also like to get some postscripts to some of the stories in “Great Mysteries of the Air” (e.g. the BSAA Tudor “Star Tiger” and the BEA Viking that had the bomb explosion on board) as I’m sure there must be some other evidence turned up by now.

O/T I remember seeing a picture of the Hart in the Marine Lake in West Kirby. I assume the tide was in when the pilot did it?

O/T (2) On an unrelated matter I never worked out exactly where RAF West Kirby was although a lot of people I knew in England seem to have been demobbed through there.

Cool mate, I’ll check it out!!

P.S. Peter, what was the plane in the second picture all about?

It’s from a short biography of Emil Tinkle on my Jasta 38DD site. Some might find it amusing, some not.

Glad you liked my little piece on the Hinchliffe saga, I hope it made up for ruining the Cosford Lincoln tale on the Ghost thread! You lived in W Kirby, amazing coincidence. (Hawker Hart ditched in Marine Lake – definitely salvaged!)

P.S. Peter, what was the plane in the second picture all about?

That’s the one Peter, thank’s mate!!!.

What a huge wooden prop it had, nice rig to just go plop, but there was plenty more that did just that!.

Interesting stuff guy’s

WGR Hinchliffe and Elise Mackay

The most intriguing story, however, is connected with a Stinson Detroiter named Endeavour and crewed by Capt Walter Hinchliffe and film and stage actress Elsie Mackay. They attempted the east-west Atlantic crossing in 1928 but were never seen again after a last sighting by a lighthouse keeper at Mizen Head, Eire. Four months later, a smelling salts bottle was found on a little frequented stretch of the Dee foreshore below where my house is now. The bottle contained a note reading “Goodbye all. Elsie Mackay and Capt Hinchliffe. Down in fog and storm”. Little importance was apparently attached to the discovery of the bottle and no attempt was made by the authorities to check the handwriting with that of either of the two missing people. A strange tale which is quoted in the excellent book Wings Across the Border by Derek Pratt and Mike Grant.

That’s a cracker, AT! I’ve never heard of that detail in connection with the Hinchliffe / Mackay story. The major part of the story also appears in the book “Great Mysteries of the Air” by Ralph Barker which was published around 1967. Captain Hinchliffe appears to have been an interesting figure (Naval 10 / 210 Squadron Pilot, WWI and a lot of post-war airline experience). I think the Barker book says a wheel from their Detroiter was washed up on the west coast of Ireland, so the scent bottle in the Dee wouldn’t be unthinkable. (BTW I lived on the other bank, in West Kirby, years ago!)

Rob / Kansan

This looks like it.

[

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Adrian

(ie flamin’ ‘eck, wouldn’t want to get within a hundred yards of that, never mind FLY in it!)

I have a picture somewhere on a disk, of a Short shirl torpedo-bomber(no good for Quize’s with it’s name on the side :rolleyes: ), with mod’s to fly the pond back in April 1919,
called the Short Shamrock, with a huge tank underneather instead of a torp, and bigger wing span, It has four guy’s linked hand in hand to throw the HUGE wooden prop for contact,(if someone has it handy post it please 😉 )

This looks like it.

And here is the unmodified version. With appologies for the retouching which was done for a spoof web site of mine.

Thank’s Tower, Interesting stuff mate, sound’s like you have a very flown over location Too, when it come to flight, some real history there!!!.

Good idea Rlang, but I am starting to think the fastest way to really get a Beau flying again, would be the Merlin engine option, as two running Merlin’s, must be easyer to come buy, then finding and rebuilding the right Bristol Cent’s!!!!.

a Beaufighter (engines buried under by-pass road according to local rumour!),

Maybe you should dig them up and give them to the TFC :p

Glad you liked my little thread, Sturmvogel. Gatty and Wiley Post must have flown right past my window just before they landed at RAF Sealand on their round-the-world flight. I definitely wasn’t around, nor was the house, but it overlooks most of the Dee Estuary and I have counted up 30-plus crash sites viewable from it. They include an He 111 which, I am told, is visible occasionally, depending on sand and tide, several Spitfires, a force-landed Botha which was not salvaged till 1953, a Mossie with an NZ crew, a Beaufighter (engines buried under by-pass road according to local rumour!), a Wellington, a Blenheim shot down in error and a Tiger Moth whose pilot was never found.
The most intriguing story, however, is connected with a Stinson Detroiter named Endeavour and crewed by Capt Walter Hinchliffe and film and stage actress Elsie Mackay. They attempted the east-west Atlantic crossing in 1928 but were never seen again after a last sighting by a lighthouse keeper at Mizen Head, Eire. Four months later, a smelling salts bottle was found on a little frequented stretch of the Dee foreshore below where my house is now. The bottle contained a note reading “Goodbye all. Elsie Mackay and Capt Hinchliffe. Down in fog and storm”. Little importance was apparently attached to the discovery of the bottle and no attempt was made by the authorities to check the handwriting with that of either of the two missing people. A strange tale which is quoted in the excellent book Wings Across the Border by Derek Pratt and Mike Grant.

Thank’s again Tommy Smith Webby.

G’ day, Tower our resident Marshall 109

Tower, great thread 🙂 ,
I had read a bit about him here and there, there were quiet a few really dodgy attempt’s 😮 ,
The French Ace Nungaaser or some thing like that went west and bought the farm, and some just never left the ground really,
Way too heavy and smacked back in to the earth with heavy loss of life, How Lindy flew his Ryan the way it was set up with fuel, across the pond, still amaze’s me to this day 🙂 .

One eyed Wiley Post was another, did amazing thing’s in his famous Lockeed Vega ” Winnie Mae “, looked absolutetly sh*t faced when he and Harold Gatty finish their round the World flight in New York, on the 1st July 1931 😉 .

I have a picture somewhere on a disk, of a Short shirl torpedo-bomber(no good for Quize’s with it’s name on the side :rolleyes: ), with mod’s to fly the pond back in April 1919,
called the Short Shamrock, with a huge tank underneather instead of a torp, and bigger wing span,
It has four guy’s linked hand in hand to throw the HUGE wooden prop for contact,(if someone has it handy post it please 😉 )

Didn’t make it in the end of course, It ditched in the Irish Channel :rolleyes: .

Great site!!!!, Thank’s Tommy Smith Webmaster mate 😉 , I do love history being preserved. a great job mate, most interesting 😎 .

Tommy Smith Flight

Hello,

I am the webmaster to the Tommy Smith Transatlantic website. I saw your postings and thought I would clarify the photo. I did not realize I did not update the picture of the plane. My apologies. The following are two pictures of his plane just prior to takeoff on May 28, 1939.

http://www.geo-met.com/tommysmith/hrplane.htm

Here is the first picture taken of the plane after it was discovered by the Royal Canadian Air Force on the barrens in Newfoundland:

http://www.geo-met.com/tommysmith/rcaf.htm
http://www.geo-met.com/tommysmith/note2.htm Note left in plane

Also, you may find the plane’s specifications interesting:

http://www.geo-met.com/tommysmith/aero.htm

Thanks for the input everyone. Amazing that so much can be found on the Web about this obscure sad little incident. No, the Aeronca C-3 definitely wasn’t an option!

Aeronca 65.C

This is the picture from the web site, which appears to have been “borrowed” from the Aerofiles web site, which I have always (so far) found to be utterly reliable.
Here is anextract from that site:
“65C Chief, 65CA Super Chief 1938 (ATC 675) = 2pChwM; 65hp Continental A-65; span: 36’0″ length: 21’0″ load: 480# v: 105/95/37 range: 260. Side-by-side seating. $1,795; POP: 279, of which many were impressed by USAAF as O-58/L-3 in 1942. 65CA with optional 8-gal auxiliary fuel tank, and other deluxe appointments. $1,895; POP: 655.”

At 65hp it was most probably an Aeronca Champ, similar in size and performance to a J-3 Cub.

The Airknocker C-3 revels in a thundering 36 horsepower. He probably wouldn’t have even got as far as Newfoundland in one of those!

Was this the Aeronca C.3 whose fuselage resembled a bathtub? If so, he was a very courageous guy, if somewhat foolhardy. RIP on the 66th anniversary of his disappearance.

No expert, but I don’t think so. The bottom shot is an Aeronca C.3 (according to www.aopa.org)

Aircraft pic