717

Why, indeed?

GA

euh, why bring back a 3 year old thread?

Flying Aebal B717 is a torture. Too many seats.

Ditto Bangkok Airways. When I flew BKK-HKT a couple of years ago the plane was barely 20% full but the seat pich was absolutely abominable. Shame, because Bangkok Airways are otherwise very good.

RE: What About this?

Well the 717-200 would be too small to detract much from the 737-700, though posibly the 736 would be toast.

Also, I would imagine they would simply restart the MD-87 line, bolt some uprated RR BR715’s on it, sort out the flight deck to give 712 commonality and so forth. The tooling and jigs are probably lying around somewhere at Long Beach. Alternatively, they could just put a few more frames into the 712.

RE: What About this?

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 02-02-03 AT 06:48 PM (GMT)]Yes but wouldn’t the 717-300 steal from an already vunarable 737NG series? Also how can an order of just 100 aircraft for one airline justify a new series of aircraft? Sure it may be compitition to the A318 but looking at the A318 orders can we say that looks like a success?

I guess the commonality of the two series would be a plus side and could encourage more orders but I do not think Boeing should risk yet another flop just because one airline wants an aircraft.

RE: What About this?

Yes, the 764 was a bit of a flop. But the point of that design was to bridge the gap between the 767-300 and the 777-200. Not really a mass market thing, really.

But the 717-300 would bridge the gap between 717-200 and 737-700, or even between a regional jet and 737-700. It would be a direct A318 competitor, like the 737-700 competes with the A319.

RE: What About this?

777 for United, right??

RE: What About this?

And look at the success the 767-400 was….

RE: What About this?

Boeing always make an aircraft for one customer though:

747 – Pan Am
767-400 – Delta, Continental

I’m sure there are a few more cases too.

RE: What About this?

I assume this is to do with the Airtran order?
It is true Boeing should listen more to the customer and pay careful attention to their customers needs rather than taking a product and forcing it upon an airline who don’t want it. However, the truth is if Boeing built the 717-300 just for one customer it is very possible it could hurt Boeing like the first 717 did. Sure a company may want a new aircraft but the question should be asked why should Boeing make one aircraft for one company? It doesn’t make sense.

What About this?

Found this rather unusual design…
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RE: 717

C’mon Boeing…Stop upgrading and start Brainstorming! All Boeing seem to do is just upgrade their aircraft to the next level. The 100, 200, 300 and so on.

Each version growing, buy adding a few extra seats and making it a little longer or wider.

Boeing have got to come up with a different way of taking on Airbus rather than keep doing upgrades.

RE: 717

I don’t agree fellas.

The 737-600 is a failure, so the practical starting point for 737 customers is the 737-700.

Therefore bringing out something which may harm 737-600 orders (as if!) is not a particularly bad idea.

The other advantage for operators, is that it would finally give them a reason to operate the 717-200; lack of fleet commonality has deterred a lot of potential 717 customers.

RE: 717

I agree. They would be better producing a new aircraft all together. The 737 and A320 are doing well enough at the moment, they dont need another aircraft like the 717. Demand should be looked at more carfeully, and then decisions made.

RE: 717

why?????

it has dead duck stamped all over it…

innovate, not upgrade, ffs…

and to consider Boeing’s motto is… Forever new Frontiers… :S

RE: 717

The problem with this derivative of the MD series and previously the DC9 is that the DC9 ultimately gained 50% of its original design weight again and more than 50% thrust increase. However (certainly with the MD series and I believe the same is true of the 717) the wing was never improved or enlarged. As a result these marks typically have a minimum clean speed (minimum speed without dirtying up, i.e. getting high lift devices out) of about 280knots! In most terminal airspace you have to maintain a maximum of 250knots below 10000′ which just about everything else can do clean. This is a minor pain with 2 engines working but becomes a performance nightmare in the one engine inoperative scenario. While the 717 is probably a bit more efficient, the bigger MD’s had the same fuel burn as a 757 while only carrying a three quarters the number of passengers.

RE: 717

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 15-10-02 AT 10:20 PM (GMT)]Yep Kabir your right… they do have 5 on order. One of those 5 is an ex-TWA.

Two of TWA’s 717’s have been placed into storage in the desert. 🙁

Alist of airlines that use the 717:

Air Tran: USA
TWA: USA
AeBal (spanair link): Spain
Qantas Link: Australia
Bangkok Airlines: Thailand
Impulse Airlines: Australia
Olympic Airways/Aviation: Greece
Hawaiian Airlines: USA
Siam Reap Air: Thailand
Vuelamex: Mexico
Turkmenistan Airlines: Turkmenistan

RE: 717

Aebael is in fact the cheap version of Spanair. It was meant to be a regional airline of Spanair, but soon it was proved that the B717 was too big for most Spanish routes. The wanted to compete the AEA ATP in the inter Balearic islands with a high density service between Ibiza, Palma and Mahon. Prices were really low and they remark (with a loathsome marketing campaign and playing with the public irrational fears) “fly only fly jets”. At the end the results were really dissapointing and the Aebael doesn´t have much sense nowadays. But it seems that the Boeing condition given to Spain were really profiatable and it´s being a nice way for Spanair to swift non profitable flights to this low cost version. With SAS intentions to turn Spanair into a low cost, the position of Aebael is quite delicate. Flying Aebal B717 is a torture. Too many seats.

RE: 717

Aerolineas de Baleares (AeBal) mentioned above is a Spanair subsidiary which operate under similar colours and with the title Spanair link on the side. They fly from Palma Mallorca to destinations around Spain mainly, so in a way Spanair do fly them.

Kinda strange a few of the major MD operators never ordered them, maybe because its was the last of the line as I don’t think Boeing have any plans to take the MD range any further.
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RE: 717

Midwest have a lot – i think around 65 – not certain tho – Spanair are now A320 family i think, so u might b confusing it with their MD-82/3 srs a/c which are been retired