737 v A320

Big thank you to all, especially to tenthije for last post – it has certainly has made me think twice… 😀

One option though is to buy the ASSETS of a failed company. In particular the AOC is worthwhile. Other then that most assets are most likely mortgaged anyway so not worth the hassle.

Perhaps I could buy the assests of Alpha One… :D:diablo::D

Stelios certainly didn’t and when he set up easyJet, he based it on the principles of Southwest Airlines, and look where he is today!

Main difference between you and Stelios (I would assume) is that you do not have a dad that owns a very large shipping company. Stelios could set up his airline with his own money, with sufficient reserve to loose a lot of money the first few months.

A lot of airlines are rather succesful when they start, exceeding expectations. However the initial investment is very high, and a lot of “operationally profitable” airlines go bust because they can not pay the loans. Examples include VBird and Goodjet.

I want to do something on the similar scale as easyJet

Easyjet started small, and so should you. However you should not expect the massive growth that Easyjet has achieved. Would of course be great and I wish you all the luck in the world, but the LCC market is maturing very fast. Easyjet and Ryanair where just lucky with their timing. Not too early but neither too late. Some airlines where too early and went bankrupt because the passengers did not trust a 10 pound ticket. Others where too late and have not been able to compete with established carriers like Easyjet and the (now much more efficient) network carriers.

but using the principles of an airline like JetBlue, which gives the passengers a better service and value for money.

Theoretically this is a good idea. But the network carriers (KLM/BA/AF/LH etc) offer more and more low fares, albeit mostly without PTV.

A risk of this approach is that you scare away the people that want to go cheap with the added luxury on the one side, and scare away all the people that want to go luxurious on the other side. Of course no enterprise has ever been started without a good deal of risk, so it might be work.

was thinking about using Southampton as a base, because it is the only airport in the South East/West of England that I think has got a potential market…

Won’t comment on the airport as I do not know enough about the area.

I was orignally thinking about using Manston, but have been discouraged since EUJet went bust.

Manston is a very big NO! Your catchment area there would be insufficient. I have joked in a few earlier threads that the catchment area of Manston is half of Kent and a million fish. That will not do.

As cheesebag has stated, funding is going to the biggest problem, as I would need to attract the help of an investor in order to provide the start-up capital needed, but can I not sell like 48% of my business so that I get the finance, and still retain a controlling share?

LOL. Might I remind you that at the moment you have nothing to sell but a nice idea? Once the airline has been established and running nicely, people will take your offer of 48%. But You should not expect any serious offers before that. If you get an offer you should not expect to gain a lot of money from it. The aviation industry is too volatile for venture capitalists to put their money in.

The other option would be to consider the possibility of taking a failing airline and transform it into a better airline (i.e Olympic).

DON’T EVER PRESUME YOU CAN CHANGE A COMPANY

Seriously, don’t do it! You can not just remove the debt from a company and a few routes, planes and personnel and solve the problem this way. Any company has a corporate culture. And the problem with a failing company is that it has a rotten culture. And trust me when I say that you can not get rid of a culture. You might be able to change it slightly, but the core remains.

You may be able to fire half the staff (and continue paying pensions, social plans, termination bonusses etc), but the culture will stick. Why do you think Pan Am went bust time and again? Their personnel was just too used to being aviation-gods. Admired by everyone.

A green field operation is almost always better.

One option though is to buy the ASSETS of a failed company. In particular the AOC is worthwhile. Other then that most assets are most likely mortgaged anyway so not worth the hassle.

Stelios brought Ray Webster in to help set easyJet up – he had over 20 years experience with Air New Zealand! BTW SOU is flybes biggest base – they wont take kindly to you entering the market and have a bigger budget that can be used to wipe the floor with you!

You are probably talking £1.5 million to setup an outfit using B737 or equivalent..

Unless you have natural entrepreneurial skills you don’t stand a chance.

Sounds like a schoolboy dream to me!

In sorts you are right, it is a schoolboy dream. I really wanted to join the RAF, but was told I couldn’t because of my eyesight (I wear glasses!), so since then I have focused my attention to commerical avaition and the possibility of setting up my own airline…

I personally don’t see how you need experience in the industry in order to set up your own airline, Stelios certainly didn’t and when he set up easyJet, he based it on the principles of Southwest Airlines, and look where he is today!

And it also seems that without giving you more infomation, you are not able to help any further…so here it is in a nutshell.

I want to do something on the similar scale as easyJet, but using the principles of an airline like JetBlue, which gives the passengers a better service and value for money. I was thinking about using Southampton as a base, because it is the only airport in the South East/West of England that I think has got a potential market…I was orignally thinking about using Manston, but have been discouraged since EUJet went bust.

As cheesebag has stated, funding is going to the biggest problem, as I would need to attract the help of an investor in order to provide the start-up capital needed, but can I not sell like 48% of my business so that I get the finance, and still retain a controlling share?

The other option would be to consider the possibility of taking a failing airline and transform it into a better airline (i.e Olympic).

😮 Funding?

Well if you call studying for a degree in airline and airport operations, and six months experience working at LGW for a ground handling company, then yes, I do have a background, otherwise no…

I need people that are interested in helping me…? 😉

Unless you have natural entrepreneurial skills you don’t stand a chance.

Sounds like a schoolboy dream to me!

that would be a no then

Blimey…a bit different from opening a sandwich shop, do you have a business background or one in aviation?

Well if you call studying for a degree in airline and airport operations, and six months experience working at LGW for a ground handling company, then yes, I do have a background, otherwise no…

I need people that are interested in helping me…? 😉

1: Depends on the contract. You don’t build up your own maintenance, you sub-contract it. If you have a good repair shop at your homebase that might influence your decision.

I think your right, i noticed that Air Berlin has Lufthansa to carry out maintenance work :), i dont know if other low cost carriers do this

I have noticed that many of the start up low-cost airlines prefer A320s, maybe its down to 3 reasons i can see

1. Economics involved, maintenace costs may be lower!!
2. The issue commanality, the same pilots, crew and maintinece guys will be familier with the A318, A319, A320 and A321 series of aircraft
3. Safty records, whats the safty record of A320s compared to 737s without fly-by-wire systems?

1: Depends on the contract. You don’t build up your own maintenance, you sub-contract it. If you have a good repair shop at your homebase that might influence your decision.

2: I don’t know any low-cost carrier whoe operates several A320-families. Commanality is an issue for big mainline carriers.

3: No, safety records are equal and crash statistics show nearly no significance of the aircraft type.

Blimey…a bit different from opening a sandwich shop, do you have a business background or one in aviation?

If you are a start-up on a small scale, be it the 320 or 737 you willhave to do a 100% investment into the maintanence programme so it wont matter that much. Just depends on the fuel economics and who offers a better price.

Hi there,

Apologises if a thread already exists on this subject (please feel free to merge if so!), however, I am wondering what people’s opinions are on the 737 and A320 series aircraft…which do you prefer to fly in and why?

The reason I ask is cos I am looking to set-up a low-cost airline, and was thinking about using a A320, with similar config to that of JetBlue Airways, but not sure what the competition from Boeing or other manufacturers was like, all I know is that the 737 NG aircraft are its nearest rival…

Anyway, if you have a comment/opinion, please feel free to add it here…

I would take the aircraft you can get. Don’t think about about the size of the fuselage. You will have to buy aircrafts second-hand or lease them under ridicoulus terms.
My personal advice: Better skip the idea of an airline. You don’t seem to have any knowledge of the issue.

Remember the old saw:

Q. How do you make a small fortune in the airline business?”

A. “start with a large one!”

Still true – not all LCCs survive and thrive like Ryanair, Easyjet and its going to get harder as the market moves towards saturation point. Be the first to do what Ryanair would like to do – fly for free and make your money on the add-ons like gambling etc.

Doesn’t sound like your in the av business at all and if you’re posting on this here doesn’t sound like you’ve got the deep pockets personally or the backing of deep pockets. If you have, that’s a start but then you need management expertise.

Lastly, and to answer your original question. IMHO, passengers generally don’t care what they fly on as long as it is cheap (LCC passengers especially) or meets their needs for convenience and value. There was an article in the Globe and Mail (arguably Canada’s national newspaper) written by a journalist about the socio-economic impact on Europe of the LCCs and how they’re changing the face of the world. Actually a good article, but even this guy thought he was flying on a Ryanair Airbus! and he has fact checkers to research his story.

Cloud 9, people will not take you seriously if you are gathering information from a Forum! You need to be speaking to someone who knows the airline world! I know you probably dont know anyone but neither did Martin Halstead and he still got somewhere otherwise we wouldnt know about Alpha One. You need to research contacts on the internet IMO.

I think that the 737NG and the A320 are basically the same. Both airplanes have there pros and cons. A decision about which one your airline will fly should be based on the cost.

I have noticed that many of the start up low-cost airlines prefer A320s, maybe its down to 3 reasons i can see

1. Economics involved, maintenace costs may be lower!!
2. The issue commanality, the same pilots, crew and maintinece guys will be familier with the A318, A319, A320 and A321 series of aircraft
3. Safty records, whats the safty record of A320s compared to 737s without fly-by-wire systems?

1. The cost can vary depending on the airline. Why would Ryanair operate the 737 if the 320 was cheaper.
2. the 737-600, 737-700, 737-800, and the 737,900 all have the same commonality as the 320 series.
3. The 737NG has a great safty record other wise why is it still flying with over 60 carriers.

if you dont want to be come a victim of alleged bullying then stop posting with topics such as this one. This surely should be moved into a hobby type forum as I’m sure all of the topics mentioned have been discussed, in depth, several times before.

LGKR

It depends on how long how many and also is it wet or dry or the one in the middle type of lease.

Well, I don’t really want to have to reveal many details, especially not my proposed base or routes, as I don’t want to be become the next victim of the type of ‘forum bullying’ that Alpha One and Martin Halsted have been subjected too, but I was proposing of having six aircraft by the end of the first year of operations, and then add another aircraft every month to have a total of 18 by end of year two…?

I know that on principle the A320 would be the better choice, cos its is wider and can fit more passengers, and over time has a better economic situation compared to the 737, but it is so hard trying to work it all out as I am currently doing all the work myself, and have got to juggle it all around my uni work as well… 😮

I have always preferred the A320 over the 737 but if you are setting up your own airline then you have to think about initial cost, fuel efficiency and various other factors. It may be that the 737 is the better choice, but from an enthusiast’s point of view I like the A320.

It depends on how long how many and also is it wet or dry or the one in the middle type of lease.