Geoffrey Thomas
October 01, 2004
The Australian
BOEING plans a radical interior makeover of its 747 that will include sky-suites in the overhead ceiling space, much larger windows and a sweeping staircase to the upper deck.
Adding punch to the aircraft’s performance, Boeing will fit the radical 7E7 engines and stretch the aircraft by 3.6m to increase passenger capacity to 450 from the current typical international configuration of 416.
The new version, known as the 747 Advanced, will have increased range, enabling it to fly from Sydney to Chicago or from Dallas-Fort Worth to Sydney.
The 747ADV is in many ways a meld of three different aircraft. It takes some of the new technology from the 7E7 and combines this with many of the proved systems from the 777 to update the classic 747 design, considered by many to be one of the best aircraft ever built.
Boeing’s pitch to airlines is that the A380 is too big for many routes such as Brisbane-Los Angeles and for off-peak times to destinations such as Hong Kong.
The new 747 model with 450 seats would fit neatly between the A380 with 550 seats and the 777-300ER and the A340-600 with about 350 seats.
Asia-Pacific airlines are the major target for the new variant, with Cathay Pacific and possibly Qantas as launch customers.
Cathay Pacific, like Japan Airlines and British Airways, has so far resisted the move to the A380 even though it operates two 747-400s a night to London from Hong Kong.
Cathay, rather than buy A380s, recently signed up for eight used 747-400s from Singapore Airlines and South African Airways.
Qantas has also been searching for used 747-400s but was unable to acquire aircraft at a price to support the business plan. In fact, the market for 747s has become very tight — Boeing Trading only has one used 747 available.
Qantas is now looking at other options and is being courted by Boeing with new aircraft offerings.
From the passenger perspective, the 747ADV will seem like a new aircraft with a 777-styled interior, up to 40 sky-suites and a business centre in the crown of the ceiling.
The sky-suites may be used by premium economy class passengers, as most airlines already offer lie-flat beds for business and first class passengers.
Access to the upper deck has been moved to the far side of the cabin as you enter and is up a sweeping staircase with windows in the ceiling giving a spacious skylight effect.
Boeing may also include 7E7-style windows — which are almost twice the size of 747 windows — to the 747ADV, to give an even greater sense of spaciousness.
The latest generation 7E7 engines will make the 747ADV the quietest aircraft in its class. It will meet all new and proposed airport noise restrictions — a major benefit when operating into noise-sensitive airports such as Sydney.
Boeing is also tweaking the aerodynamics of the wing to make the 747ADV slightly faster than the 747, already the world’s fastest large-capacity commercial aircraft.
It is expected that the 747ADV will be committed to production early next year with the first flight scheduled for 2009 and entry into service a year later.
By: US Agent - 26th June 2005 at 15:53
Boeing nears derivative decisions
US manufacturer close to launching 747 Advanced and 737-900X, and is set to save 747-400 freighter
Flight International
21-June-05
Boeing is closing on launch decisions on two new airliner derivatives within the next few months amid mounting signs that sufficient launch customers are now lined up for both the 747 Advanced and long-awaited 737-900X.
“We have a team working on [747] Advanced and they are hugging our customers to sell them the business case,” says Boeing chairman Lew Platt. “The team is really enthused. The reception [in the market] has been very good. The business case is not as tough as the 787 or [Airbus] A380. I fully expect [a decision] in the next few months and maybe as early as the end of this month.”
Boeing vice-president sales Scott Carson adds that customer interest is also shifting in favour of the passenger variant, rather than the freighter as previously seen. “Much of the early interest was in the freighter, but now the majority of the interest is among airlines,” he says. The potential 747 Advanced customers include some airlines that have already ordered the A380 as well as some that want to “move up in scale without taking on the risk of the A380”, he adds.
In addition to growing signs of launch customers for the Advanced, Boeing is seeing equally important indications of renewed interest in the current 747-400, particularly the freighter. As a result the company says it will not call a halt to the programme in the near term as previously threatened.
Boeing Commercial Airplanes president Alan Mulally says: “We thought we might announce the conclusion of production at the end of this year and that’s not going to be the case because the demand for the 747-400 is increasing. We don’t anticipate any announcement this year on stopping the 747 and that gives us another option because it gives us time to bridge to the 747 Advanced,” says Mulally, who adds that entry into service would be either late 2008 or early 2009.
By: US Agent - 14th June 2005 at 16:07
FYI, plans on the 747ADV are mentioned in an article I posted in the ‘767 Production’ thread:
Mulally also says they’ll probably develop bigger 747
By: Grey Area - 14th June 2005 at 06:48
True, but Boeing have been selling them since way before any metal was cut for the first A300……. 🙂
By: bring_it_on - 14th June 2005 at 05:47
hasnt boeing sold more 737’s then all of airbus’s models combined?
By: US Agent - 14th June 2005 at 05:17
We already have a thread started on this topic: Boeing 747 Advanced (Merged)
Good call, US Agent. I’ve merged the two now.
Grey Area
Moderator
By: steve rowell - 14th June 2005 at 05:11
Over the last 35 years, Boeing has sold 1,350 of the 747s, making it the most popular commercial jet in history.
.
With over 5000 units sold i would have thought the 737 was the most popular commercial jet in history
By: skycruiser - 14th June 2005 at 03:32
747 advanced
Air war heats up as Boeing stretches point
Airbus’s 550-seat ‘big idea’ has not won over all the major airlines, now its US rival prepares to enter fray. Clayton Hirst reports
Boeing is preparing to mount a head-on challenge to the Airbus A380, the world’s largest passenger jet, with plans for a stretched version of its 747.
The 450-seat jet, called the 747 Advanced, is still on the drawing board but the final decision on whether to put it into production will be made at a Boeing board meeting in the next few weeks.
Lew Platt, the chairman of Boeing, said: “The airlines we are talking to are pretty enthusiastic. Right now it looks like this is a programme that is gaining momentum.”
The 747 Advanced would be smaller than the 550-seat A380, but it would be Boeing’s largest passenger jet and would be marketed in direct competition to Airbus’s double-decker plane.
Documents seen by The Independent on Sunday in the UK show that Boeing is preparing to claim that the 747 Advanced would cost the typical airline 23 per cent less per trip to fly than the A380. Central to this saving is Boeing’s claim that the jet would consume 14 per cent less fuel per passenger compared to Airbus’s giant plane.
Boeing is also planning to kit out the front portion of the upper deck with “Sky Suites” with individual boudoirs for premium-paying passengers.
Over the last 35 years, Boeing has sold 1,350 of the 747s, making it the most popular commercial jet in history.
If Boeing decides to develop the 747 Advanced, it is expected to turn its attentions to British Airways and Cathay Pacific as its first potential customers, both of which have yet to back Airbus’s A380.
By: US Agent - 13th June 2005 at 22:42
747 Advanced launch slips
Flight International
14-June-05
Boeing has pushed back its planned launch of the Boeing 747 Advanced from its previous mid-year target by several months, but remains confident that it will secure airline backing for the stretched aircraft.
“We expect commitments from carriers and industrial launch before year-end,” said Boeing vice-president marketing Randy Baseler at last week’s launch of its 2005 Current Market Outlook. “A lot of the airlines we’ve spoken to have indicated that they want to make a decision by late summer/early autumn, so we’ve pushed our target back from mid-year.” He added that Boeing wants to launch the passenger and freighter versions together.
By: greekdude1 - 3rd June 2005 at 22:27
Pratt have a dismal engine for the 777, barely able to do the job on a 772ER…. let alone an LR.
lol
Just kidding 😉
:dev2:
By: Bmused55 - 3rd June 2005 at 12:19
Indeed. Where’s the Pratt variant?? 😉
Pratt have a dismal engine for the 777, barely able to do the job on a 772ER…. let alone an LR.
lol
Just kidding 😉
By: greekdude1 - 3rd June 2005 at 02:20
i was reading in a magazine, i cant remember the name of it, but a former Boeing exec commented on the low sales of the 777 worldliner, he was quoted as saying perhaps if Boeing didnt have a one engine policy for it, perhaps more sales would be forthcoming.
Indeed. Where’s the Pratt variant?? 😉
By: hawkdriver05 - 2nd June 2005 at 03:39
I would respect the hair boeing would be showing if the did that to the French………
By: Shadow1 - 2nd June 2005 at 03:15
Is there a chance Boeing might make an announcement on the 747ADV at Le Bourget? There has been a lot of noise from various sources who believe Boeing will in fact move forward with this design. CX’s future procurement program could likely see them become the aircraft’s launch customer since they have never really expressed any interests in the A380. Everyone predicts that Airbus might steal the show but I have a feeling Boeing has a few tricks up its sleeves! Cheers!
By: Bmused55 - 1st June 2005 at 23:57
i dont agree with the small niche market for the 747adv, By the time it comes to flying, BA will be looking for a replacement for its 747-400 (54 at the current count), and there is many other 747-4 operators that will be ready to replace there current fleet in the next 5-10 years.
slight change of topic
i was reading in a magazine, i cant remember the name of it, but a former Boeing exec commented on the low sales of the 777 worldliner, he was quoted as saying perhaps if Boeing didnt have a one engine policy for it, perhaps more sales would be forthcoming.
Replacements for aging 744s is also a possiblity.
However, if trends continue the way they are… 773ER and A346 aircraft are likely to win a lot of the 744 replacement orders. As many airlines fine they can no longer fill 747s all the time.
However I read somewhere that BA, CX, QF and SQ all fill their 744s with regularity. So if they wanted a replacement with minimal type rating training and a few more seats…. say hello to the 747ADV.
By: Dantheman77 - 1st June 2005 at 23:30
The point is to fill a small niche market.
So small it wouldn’t warrant the expense of an all new wing etc.
The said proposals above seem perfectly logical to me.I wish the press would stop touting this as an A380 rival. It isn’t.
Its meant to fill the gap between the 744/A346 and the A380.
A niche aircraft for airlines who cannot justify the size of the A380, but need something bigger than the 744/A346.OK, it could take some A380 sales from Airbus from customers who would have bought it as it was then only thing available after the 744/a346 but its still not a one on one competitor or rival.
i dont agree with the small niche market for the 747adv, By the time it comes to flying, BA will be looking for a replacement for its 747-400 (54 at the current count), and there is many other 747-4 operators that will be ready to replace there current fleet in the next 5-10 years.
slight change of topic
i was reading in a magazine, i cant remember the name of it, but a former Boeing exec commented on the low sales of the 777 worldliner, he was quoted as saying perhaps if Boeing didnt have a one engine policy for it, perhaps more sales would be forthcoming.
By: US Agent - 1st June 2005 at 23:18
So…what do you think the odds are that Boeing will officially launch the 747ADV at Paris?
By: Bmused55 - 2nd May 2005 at 17:37
Oh, you explained it just fine Sandy, and it makes sense, but that doesn’t take away from my thinking on the matter, especially since the -500X and -600X weren’t direct competitors to the A380, either, but more or less what the 747ADV is now.
I think what the 500x and 600x lacked is what is being developed now
787 technology 😉
Thats probably why they were dropped. Boeing could not improve the 747 any better at the time. But with lessons learned from the 787’s development.. there are many possibilities.
🙂
By: Bmused55 - 2nd May 2005 at 17:37
Oh, you explained it just fine Sandy, and it makes sense, but that doesn’t take away from my thinking on the matter, especially since the -500X and -600X weren’t direct competitors to the A380, either, but more or less what the 747ADV is now.
I think what the 500x and 600x lacked is what is being developed now
787 technology 😉
Thats probably why they were dropped. Boeing could not improve the 747 any better at the time. But with lessons learned from the 787’s development.. there are many possibilities.
🙂
By: greekdude1 - 2nd May 2005 at 17:20
and theres me thinking I had just explained it all :rolleyes:
Oh, you explained it just fine Sandy, and it makes sense, but that doesn’t take away from my thinking on the matter, especially since the -500X and -600X weren’t direct competitors to the A380, either, but more or less what the 747ADV is now.
By: greekdude1 - 2nd May 2005 at 17:20
and theres me thinking I had just explained it all :rolleyes:
Oh, you explained it just fine Sandy, and it makes sense, but that doesn’t take away from my thinking on the matter, especially since the -500X and -600X weren’t direct competitors to the A380, either, but more or less what the 747ADV is now.
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October 1, 2004 at 2:15 am