80 mph speed limit – why?

This is an excellent point.
I would argue that the thinking distance is now greater.
As a 7 series driver, I have the confidence I can stop in an unfeasible distance. This does, psychologically, allow risk to enter the frame. When I had a naff old Ford, I kept a rule-o-thumb (Actually geekily calculated) that the car in front at 70mph should not be as wide as my middle fingertip with arm outstretched. (Do yout owm trig.!!). With the correct gap like this, other drivers fill it, because it is (By modern standards) an enormous gap.
Now, in teh 7, I feel I could stop on a sixpence…so I don’t actually mind a smaller gap. WRONG ATTITUDE!! But, the experience of the car sort of forces me into this psychological minefield.

That may be so, in fact I think I mentioned it myself a few posts back that modern cars can stop quicker. My point was however that the thinking distance will be the same if not possibly longer than it was in the 1960s. Driving a 1960’s car traveling at 70mph is very different from driving a one of today’s quiet smooth cars.
The other far more important point, and again these have been mentioned before, is that the motorways are many, many times busier than they were in the 1960s. On the M6 during the week you’d be lucky to travel at 50mph far less 80mph.

Interesting fact I learnt this week

You recall the ‘braking distance’ charts on the back of the Highway Code?

The current BMW 7 Series, A 2,000Kg chunk of metal can pull itself down from 62 mph in one third of the distance the code suggests.

Such has been the progress over the years since the 70mph limit was introduced

Moggy

Hoisted by my own petard!!

I got a flash from a speed camera last weekend. I was doing 130km ph in a 90 on the motorway in Belgium. I forgot that the speed limit drops near junctions. (from 130 to 90 or from 100 to 60 km ph)

See if I get a fine.

From Information Britain…

The 22nd of December 1965 AD
The day that must be etched on Jeremy Clarkson ’s heart.

Just before Christmas 1965 Transport Minister Tom Fraser (not Barbara Castle, as many seem to think) introduced a 70mph limit for drivers on motorways, following several pile-ups in the foggy autumn and winter of that year, though another cause is sometimes cited – the era’s super-cars being seen on motorways in legal-speak: “Travelling at speeds in excess of 150mph”.

Like Income Tax in 1799 this was to be a temporary measure. In the sixties many car drivers were the first in their family to own a vehicle, so with fewer points of reference as regards driving than is the case today. The engineering on some cars (especially in those days brakes) was not great, with many struggling to reach 70mph. At the time then few voices were raised against the measure.

Barbara Castle confirmed the limit as a permanent fixture when she was transport minister in 1967. The genie was out of the bottle to stay.

As driving experience has become ingrained, cars have radically improved, and road building likewise, voices are now starting to be heard about raising the limit, comparing things with France where the top speed is 130kph (80mph), for example. But the chances of this happening are roughly equivalent to those of proportional representation and free beer for all. Indeed it should be recalled that in a period of energy crisis in 1973 the limit was dropped to 50mph for a time, so the smart money would be on a decrease before any increase.

With all due respect, Id disagree with this. Until 1965 all of the then uk motorways were unlimited.

IIRC it came with a race team testing its car on the open road at upwards of 160mph that bought the speed limit into effect 😉

I thought it came in as a temporary measure after some bad accidents in fog.

A very interesting letter in the Times last week.

It said that all motorway planning and building had been based on a speed limit of 70 mph. That is to say sight lines, bend angles etc.

With all due respect, Id disagree with this. Until 1965 all of the then uk motorways were unlimited.

IIRC it came with a race team testing its car on the open road at upwards of 160mph that bought the speed limit into effect 😉

Ben. Just travelled around the M25, and what with all the variable speed limits, PLUS Specs, it’s a nightmare to drive on.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Totally agree with you there old chap?

The point being if we increase the speeds shouldn’t we increase the length of the slip roads?

I would say you have a very good point there. Most slip roads give you plenty room to get up to 60/70 but some dont and for this reason you have a good point.

A very interesting letter in the Times last week.

It said that all motorway planning and building had been based on a speed limit of 70 mph. That is to say sight lines, bend angles etc.

I wish I could afford to travel above 70 mph anyway. Fuel is too expensive for me to go dashing around at high speed.

To digress slightly onto dual carriage ways for a moment.
I had a hairy moment joining the A303 near Popham when, flooring the old banger down the slip (which was a curved slip with no view of the carriage way) I rounded the corner to find the slip had about 100 feet left!

The point being if we increase the speeds shouldn’t we increase the length of the slip roads?

A very interesting letter in the Times last week.

It said that all motorway planning and building had been based on a speed limit of 70 mph. That is to say sight lines, bend angles etc.

I wish I could afford to travel above 70 mph anyway. Fuel is too expensive for me to go dashing around at high speed.

This is another good point. Some of the bends and exit angles on continental roads are clearly wrong for the 80 limit, as are some of the other ergonomics like the signage and also the actual Surface. Have to admit, the British motorway system for this sort of thing is probably the best in the world.

Nashio, yes, you are one of the few. Me too. Because my driving is pootling for a short period then a 500 miler in one day I check my tires regularly, and absolutely before the long trips. One trip on an under/over inflated tyre means new tyre, and mine aint cheap.

variable speed limits are already in place on several motorways.

Ben. Just travelled around the M25, and what with all the variable speed limits, PLUS Specs, it’s a nightmare to drive on.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

A very interesting letter in the Times last week.

It said that all motorway planning and building had been based on a speed limit of 70 mph. That is to say sight lines, bend angles etc.

I wish I could afford to travel above 70 mph anyway. Fuel is too expensive for me to go dashing around at high speed.

As a matter of interest, on the totally unrestricted sections of German Autobahn the bulk of motorists settle quite happily at 80, but stay well alert for the big-engined 7 Series and S Class that are encountered frequently coming from behind.

Moggy

I supposed that makes me one of the odd few that still spends good money on proper tyres and checks and services his car regularly. 🙂

I do tyre pressures every 3 days (when I fill my work steed) I do slow on the motorway when It comes to rain but that is entirely dependant on the amount of rain and the conditions.

As is the case with all driving, it is continuously risk assessing your surroundings and looking ahead.

There is no evidence to believe that will be the case. Actually, the most likely scenario is that they would continue to work under the current guidelines of 10% + 2mph before considering a prosecution. 70+10%+2=79mph btw, and so 80+10%+2 would mean prosecution would be considered at 90mph and above.

I’ve no idea how much Motorway driving you do PPP but I can assure you 85 is a very common benchmark for most fast-lane drivers. Likely scenario is that the Police will book foolish driving at 71mph.
Police seem to ignore 85 unless you are an idiot…tailgating, lane swapping, flashing lights etc.
If the Law was 80, and the rule-o-thumb becomes 90, Police will enforce it because they (And I too) believe it is too fast for a significant amount of drivers, including most males under 24 and anybody over 65. The reaction times are also greatly reduced. Stopping distance at 80 is about 650 feet. At 90 about 800 feet. The reaction time (Say 1 second) will advance 15 feet between 80 and 90.
And most people do not even check tyre pressures regularly, or even the wear until it’s MoT time. Cheaper budget tyres with a rating of R are only rated to 106mph. 90 is too close to that. And, even though Standards are Standards, the very cheap tyres made in China are like most things made in China…absolute rubbish.
This coming weekend I will be driving approximately 1,000 miles; 90% of that will be motorway and all of it will be at early morning or late night. I can happily stick cruise control on at 80 or 85 and be on the inside lane at these times, occasionally overtaking a truck or a caravan. At 90, even my 2 ton car starts to feel light on the steering so what it must be like for the average family car beggars belief. And yes, I do check tyres and lights etc. weekly, even though I could wait to get a Gong when one of the sensors tells me so.

The wet / dry rule as per the continent may or may not work in UK. I’ve driven through Rain for 1 minutes or less. I do think most people actually do slow down in rain anyway though.

I also forgot the chronically indecisive and those drivers obviously too vain to wear their spectacles :)…yes there are many types of bad drivers in this country…but hey – it is easier to just blame speed…now where is that nice Mr Brunstrom ?? LOL 😀

It is the high speeds when the motorways are busy that cause the biggest problems.
.

I would strongly disagree with that sentence 🙂
Of all the bad driving that I see on Mways…speed is not a major contender !!
Slow drivers are a pain as well as tailgaters,impatient drivers and excessive lane changers as well as people who obviously do not look ahead at traffic 🙂

rgds baz

But it is arbitrary. The limit is 70 not 85. If they started dishing out fines for doing 75mph then motorway speeds would soon come down. The traffic is travelling at 85mph because the law as it stands isn’t being enforced.

Why shouldn’t the speed limits for HGVs, cars and trailers go up accordingly? So car drivers get the law changed because they break it?

If you want to use the thinking distance argument, then the limit should be far higher for motorcyclists than car drivers as the thinking distance is likely to be shorter due to increased concentration and lack of distractions.

We’re talking about the vast majority who drive cars which is apparently why the limit is being changed, not the minority who ride motorbikes. Anyway how many motorbikes do you actually see on the motorway?
Motorbike accidents are a major cause of road deaths on A class roads not on motorways I would suggest.

PP – Please use ‘reply’ rather than ‘quote’ as your default way of replying. – Mods

sc
85mph isn’t arbitary though, it’s the speed which most of the cars are travelling around, and so they are just pulling over people that are going far quicker than anyone else.

As for HGVs, I don’t think anyone has called for a speed increase for them, so it’s unlikely to happen.

If you want to use the thinking distance argument, then the limit should be far higher for motorcyclists than car drivers as the thinking distance is likely to be shorter due to increased concerntration and lack of distractions.