831 sqdn Barracuda crash -can anyone tell me more?

Yes, definitely Connachan then. A pity to be so close after having journeyed so far. It seems the Barracuda was routing Machrihanish to Kirkwall according to this memorial plaque for Alan Sim at Kilmarnock Academy.

Loch Turret is looking very unfriendly weatherwise at present. A bit like the rest of the country I suppose!

hi there- yes i am pretty sure we were at grid ref NN 818 288 – i double checked with my father and he has confirmed this – i have posted up a few more pics of the o2a compass part in an album with the same name – I will re-photograph the other parts I have and post up – obviously now I am quite keen to track down the actual crash site of the barracuda –

Yes, that’s the same thing

Compass is an Observers compass, used in Albacore, Walrus and Barracuda.

That looks like a landing compass. It’s hand held and used in a number of multi-crewed aircraft. I have one for my Whitley.

http://www.fleaglass.com/index.php?a=2&b=6532

I’ve seen the pics – they are great. If you can find some inspectors stamps they should confirm the manufacturer and then the aircraft type.

Hi Titlow – any chance of some pics of the bits you found? If you can find any stamps or numbers we may be able to confirm the aircraft type…

I hope Titlow does not mind me taking the liberty of pointing you towards his blog which contains some excellent pictures.

http://dailytitlow.blogspot.co.uk/2008/06/fairey-barracuda-mk2-extra-pics.html

http://dailytitlow.blogspot.co.uk/2008_05_01_archive.html

The item (compass?) his Dad is holding shows A.M. ref no 6A/0.892.

Thank you for this information, I never realised that there were 4 crew killed – David Titlow was my great uncle and I now now realise that we were in the wrong place and must have recovered parts from either the walrus or albacore – my father and I are now considering our next move in the quest for the correct site of the crash –

Hi Titlow – any chance of some pics of the bits you found? If you can find any stamps or numbers we may be able to confirm the aircraft type…

Censoring of information about accidents was standard practice unless it was so obvious that not publishing would have made the situation worse. For example if a crash happened in a town centre (which did happen) it would be mentioned, but they tended never to name the town rather a general region would be used. Crashes out in the countryside were easy to make disappear.

So I managed a trip to the local library today but no mention in the local archives of any of the Loch Turret crashes. At first I thought maybe not to affect morale but there were plenty of entries re. those killed in action abroad so why no mention of something that happened within 2 – 3 miles of the town? Would this sort of thing be censored during the war? OK the men involved did not live in the local area but surely such occurences should merit a mention at least.

Titlow, are you sure you were in the wrong place? Connachan is the hill right at the front of the glen as you approach from Crieff towards the dam. It is on the right hand side of the loch. Ben Chonzie is back left with Auchnafree Hill – Meall Tarsuinn between them. I couldn’t quite place your position from your photos. BluebirdBill can you verify that part his Dad is holding is from the Barracuda? Looks like A.M. Ref.no. 6A/0.892.

Something we plan for the Barra’ project site is to collect stories of the people who knew the Barra’ and put as many of them together in one place as we can. So if there’s any stories to be told feel free to send them over and we’ll get them properly recorded for posterity.

barracuda meall tarsuinn

This site:

http://www.naval-history.net/xDKCas1944-05MAY.htm

lists four (not three as per the Blog entry) casualties for 831 Sqn:

FAA, 831 Sqn, Victorious, air crash
FRIEND, John W, Ty/Sub Lieutenant (A), RNVR, killed
ROBBINS, Reginald N, Ty/Sub Lieutenant (A), RNVR, killed
SIM, Alan B, Ty/Leading Airman, FAA/FX 87037, killed
TITLOW, David A, Ty/Sub Lieutenant (A), RNVR, killed

Simon

Thank you for this information, I never realised that there were 4 crew killed – David Titlow was my great uncle and I now now realise that we were in the wrong place and must have recovered parts from either the walrus or albacore – my father and I are now considering our next move in the quest for the correct site of the crash –

We have a Barra’ tail that was dredged out of an estuary and many of the components where the tailwheel goes are immaculate yet there’s barnacles on the bases of the diagonal struts that attach to the tailplane. It also has its original ‘sky’ paint scheme intact. We have a few good examples of original, un-faded WWII paint that was applied before parts were riveted together so at least we ought to be able to get that right.

Talking of the Firth of Forth sent me ‘trawling’ through the old scrapbooks again in search of this article from 1979/80. Don’t know if the puzzle was ever solved or where the prop finally ended up. It looks in decent condition
superficially at least.

Ahh, that’s what I was after – thanks for that. An intact Grumman Avenger turned up in the Firth of Forth a few years back in only about 40ft of water so there’s bound to be a Barra’ lying around. Time to dig out the sonar equipment, methinks.

We’re rebuilding the tailplane of our Barra’ at the moment, the fin is in excellent condition so that’s OK but we’re short of some rudder and portside elevator bits so all options are being looked at.

Was typing my piece as Ross posted above : he confirms East Haven as a Barracuda source (one of several such incidents, I feel) Brian S

Other areas which had offshore Barracudas crash/ditch would be off Lunan Bay, north of Arbroath, and also offshore near East Haven, (HMS Peewit) south of Arbroath. Lunan Bay area was a practice bombing area, and a number of Barracuda squadrons were based at Peewit for training and ADDL practice. Both areas were subject to intensive trawl fishing since the war years, and many nets were damaged by snagging on sunken aircraft wreckage. I well remember a Pegasus engine complete with propellor from a Swordfish being recovered in a Seine net by a local fishing boat.This sat at the local harbour for some time after recovery. Whether anything would be worth salvaging after all the years of salt-water immersion and damage as described above is doubtful, but I would suggest an extensive search of both areas might be productive, if both funds and time were available. Brian S.

Best place for reliable coastal eyewitness positions is the RNLI Records of Service.

They were written down at the time for use in rewards and published internally in 1946.

Credit :RNLI Records of service 1939-46

1944
CRAIL , FIFESHIRE.
At eleven in the morning of the 15th of January, 1944, four men were out in the 25-feet motor boat Sheila. They were fishing for crabs by towing a line of pots. They saw a Barracuda aeroplane come down on the sea, about two and a half miles south-east of Crail harbour. A light westerly wind was blowing and the sea was smooth. The men cut away their gear, and a short distance away picked up three men in the aeroplane’s dinghy. One was a sixteen-year-old air training cadet. They took them to Crail and handed them over to an ambulance from the Royal Naval Air Service at Crail. The owner of the Sheila said that “he was not looking for any reward and was only too glad to have assisted in saving the aircraft’s crew.“ – Rewards, £2 10s. and 4s. for fuel used. (BV753 – Ross)

SEPTEMBER 7TH. – BLACKPOOL, LANCASHIRE.
At 4.40 in the afternoon the St. Anne’s coastguard reported that an aeroplane had crashed in the sea about three miles west-south-west of Squires Gate. A light north-west breeze was blowing and the sea was smooth. The motor life-boat Sarah Ann Austin was launched at five o’clock, taking with her an R.A.F. doctor, another R.A.F. officer and two police officers. She found two dinghies with three men in them, the crew of a Fleet Air Arm Barracuda aeroplane. The men were wet, cold and slightly injured.The life-boat took them and the dinghies on board and landed them at Blackpool at 6.45. Rewards, £6 1s. 6d

ANSTRUTHER, FIFESHIRE.
At 2.10 in the afternoon of the 13th of October, 1944, the Anstruther coastguard saw a Barracuda aeroplane flying low on a westerly course. Without warning it nose-dived into the sea. Then a rubber dinghy was seen with a man on board. Four men in the fishing boat Shepherd Lad were nearby. They rescued the man and his dinghy and took them to St. Monans. – Rewards, a letter of appreciation to Mr. John Dunn, skipper of the Shepherd Lad. (MD757 – Ross)

EASTHAVEN, ANGUS.
At 9.15 on the night of the 21st of November, 1944, the coastguard at Easthaven reported that a Barracuda aeroplane had crashed in the sea opposite the lookout post. A light west wind was blowing, with a moderate swell. With some difficulty four men launched a rowing boat, which had been laid up for the winter. It was a dark, moonless night, but the men worked quickly and skilfully and rescued the pilot, uninjured, but suffering from shock and exposure. The Broughty Ferry life-boat was launched, but was not needed.- Rewards, £5. (See Broughty Ferry, “Accounts of Services by Life-boats,” 1944, page 45.)

1945
JANUARY 3RD. – ANSTRUTHER, FIFESHIRE.
A Barracuda aeroplane had been reported in the sea after striking the target ship, but no survivors could be found.- Rewards, £17 14s. (MD801 – Ross)

ROCKFIELD, ROSS AND CROMARTY.
At five in the afternoon of the 18th of June, 1945, a Barracuda aeroplane crashed in the sea a mile east of Rockfield. A moderate south-west wind was blowing, with a slight sea. No one saw the accident, but on seeing smoke rising from the sea four men put out in a rowing boat. They found only a rubber dinghy and a seat. A destroyer, an air-sea rescue-boat and aeroplanes also searched.- Rewards, £2. (MX844 – Ross)

1946
FINDON, ABERDEENSHIRE.
A Barracuda aircraft crashed in the sea two miles east-by north of Findon coastguard station at 3.45 in the afternoon of the 19th of June, 1946. The sea was calm and the wind light. The accident was seen by a man, who informed the police and they collected a crew of five, who put off at once in a motor boat, but just before they reached the spot a passing steam trawler had rescued the pilot. – Rewards, £3 and 3s. for fuel used.

These should keep you at the Hydroggies charts for a bit until the weather moderates.

Regards
Ross

Yes, seen that, thanks. It looks like we’ll have to search the entire stretch of seabed between Crail and May Island. I can’t imagine there’s be much on a seawater-soaked Barra’ we could use but you just never know. Things get buried in mud and preserved and so many dissimilar metals in an electrolyte sometimes produces weird effects leaving things in perfect conditon while everything around them has gone. We’ll see.
By the way – the Barra’ website is a long way from completion as anyone who’s been there will have worked out all on their own but I got moaned at (in a good natured sort of way) for letting it out of the bag ahead of time. Oops.

BluebirdBill, don’t know if this has already been checked out –

http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/307113/details/fairey+barracuda+ii+firth+of+forth/?date=asc