I am trying to positively identify as many as possible of the original aircraft of the 92nd Bomb Group. The best reference so far is a set of seven official photographs that were taken immediately before the brand-new B-17Fs were handed over to the 97th Bomb Group in exchange for older B-17Es. These photos are dated September 8, 1942 and the location is “England”. The B-17s shown in the photos include three from the 325th Bomb Squadron – 41-24343 Blooming Grove, 41-24411 Dottie and what I believe is 41-24417 Tiger Rose. There are three 327th Bomb Squadron planes – 41-24376 Hellzapoppin, Virgin Sturgeon and Exterminator. The seventh B-17F is named Bundles for Berlin, squadron unknown.
Interestingly, another 327th Squadron B-17, Society Gal, appears in the background of the Hellzapoppin and Virgin Sturgeon photos.
You can clearly see an “0” as part of the radio call number on the tail, so this is 41-24400 or 41-24406, but at this point I can’t be sure which. Can anybody help on this or any of the others?
By: Steve Birdsall - 7th October 2011 at 21:31
That’s a very sad story Deryk, but this scramble for the fragments of history is full of them!
Seriously, it shouldn’t be this difficult because those early B-17s were so well documented . . . photographers like Robert Capa with the 301st, and Margaret Bourke-White with unfettered access to the 97th.
I dream of the questions that would be answered if we could get into the Magnum and LIFE archives and see the photographers’ contact sheets, rather than the relatively few photos – some retouched to censor details – that appeared in print (and more recently online).
I’m pretty sure that Society Gal was 41-24400, (which may or may not have been re-named Little Bill before it was condemned following the Lorient mission), but I still hope to prove it.
By: Deryck - 7th October 2011 at 17:55
Sorry Steve, I cannot add to your info. As a kid I was all over Podington, Chelveston, Thurleigh, Kimbolton and Little Staughton and I carefully collected tail numbers, aircraft names and squadron markings.
Unfortunately my mother decided that I did not need all that info when the war ended and she threw it all out, as I had by then left the country.
Folks always ask “Did you take photos?” Unfortunately neither film nor processing was available during the war years and most places adjacent to airfields were posted with signs indicating that the taking of photos and/or notes and the making of sketches were forbidden under the wartime rules.
By: Steve Birdsall - 6th October 2011 at 20:28
92nd Bomb Group B-17Fs
Thanks for the comments. T-21, I at least one of the photos of these aircraft was taken August 19, 1942, not in September or in England, as you note.
Dan, that’s a different Dottie.
Deryk, yes I have Cliff Bishop’s book but as you know there are no plane-name or plane-crew tieups for the 92nd originals, and not all are identified by squadron.
The 92nd flew to England by squadrons, in four nine-plane flights. I believe that the 327th Squadron was 41-24376 Hellzapoppin, 41-24388, 41-24400, 41-24406, 41-24413, 41-24419, 41-24435, 41-24437 and one more that I can’t identify.
Other known nicknames on those 327th planes were Exterminator (Haas crew), Virgin Sturgeon (Winget crew) and Society Gal.
Overseas orders for the 92nd flights would provide the answers, but they don’t seem to be available anywhere.
By: Deryck - 6th October 2011 at 16:28
Steve, according to Bishop the following B-17F’s were assigned to the 92nd at Bangor, Maine, between June and August 1942.
4124342, 4124343, 4124344, 4124345, 4124365, 4124370, 4124373, 4124376, 4124377, 4124378, 4124379, 4124380, 4124382, 4124385, 4124388, 4124392,
4124400, 4124406, 4124411, 4124412, 4124413, 4124414, 4124415, 4124416,
4124417, 4124419, 4124421, 4124435, 4124437, 4124441, 4124442, 4124443,
4124445, 4124473.
4124365 and 4124380 were involved in landing accidents at Bangor on July 2oth and 26th and it was not known if they made it to England.
There are similar listings for the B-17E’s assigned, if you need them.
By: Deryck - 6th October 2011 at 15:09
Steve have you checked the Cliff Bishop book “Fortresses of the Big Triangle First”?
He seems to list a bunch of aircraft that the 97th acquired from the 92nd.
By: Dan Johnson - 6th October 2011 at 15:01
Steve is this the same Dottie?
The 92nd bird is the only one that makes sense to match this photo too
By: T-21 - 6th October 2011 at 08:57
There is a Norseman aircraft with the large Canadian air force serial number on the fuselage so I reckon the first picture was taken in Canada possibly Gander en route across the Atlantic.
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October 6, 2011 at 7:30 am