9K38 Igla

Hope that BAe and Northrop engineers know what they are doing.
US$ 2 mil is not so expensive, but probably it shuld be mounted at least 4 systems on each plane to cover all bottom hemispere.
Russian manpads have narrow field of view, stupid analogous electronics and proportional navigation. So laser should be pointed exactly to missile seeker to blind it, expecting that blind flying missile will miss the target. For maneuvring fighter it could be expected, but for landing Jumbo?

3. Need for development of countermeasures.
Who will pay for increased security? – Passengers!
Even unsuccessful attempt to hit commercial aircraft will cause catastrophical results.
..

Both BAe and Northrop have developped defensive systems for airliners (i.e. adapted their military systems for civilian aviation) on a mandate from DHS.

FAA certification of those equipments is expected in the first quarter 2006. The price of those equipments is estimated at US$ 2 millions (ie DIRCM, or Direct Infrared countermeasures). The question that is going to be raised now is whether every single aircraft should be equipped, or only those going into sensitive regions.

After about 10 years the rocket fuel will start to break down too… it becomes a use it or lose it situation then.

Depends on storage conditions, but at least 10-15 yr for fuel and even 20 yr. for battery.
According to my experience, usual problems are connected with mechanical defects, corrosion, so hope that the number of serviseable missiles is decreasing.

The problem in terms of shelf life is not that drastic. The one element that poses a problem are batteries.

After about 10 years the rocket fuel will start to break down too… it becomes a use it or lose it situation then.

Yes, I’m afraid because of:
1. Proliferation and availability of manpads and possibility of terrorist usage. Do not forget “second hand” and black market. So missiles initially sold to one country could be found in other.
According to US reports approx 900 missiles (Redeye or Stinger) has been given to mujaheds and at least 100 are missing. Russia claims 50,000 Strela-2 and undisclosed number of Strela-2 and Iglas. What about Chinese, Pakistani, British and French manpads? What about license production in Soviet sttelites?
2. Export oriented development of such missiles in Russia and claims for high effectiveness. Such a commercial presentation could draw attention of Bin Laden rather than of official customer.
3. Need for development of countermeasures.
Who will pay for increased security? – Passengers!
Even unsuccessful attempt to hit commercial aircraft will cause catastrophical results.

I hope that most of Strela-2 missiles are out of service, but Iglas …

But shelf life depends on storage conditions and maintenance.
Most of “customers” are purchasing only missiles and launchers.
No spare parts, no training and testing means.
Even hand held weapon, but Igla is not AK-47!
As result, after several years missiles become unoperable.
Remember that Russian manpads are not maintenance free.
If certain country do not have such missile system in the inventory usual delivery should include N missiles with spares kit #1 (individual), N/100 spares kit #2, N/300 spares kit#3, approx. N/5 launchers and related spare kits, trainig sets with spare kits, testing means with spare kits.

Btw, do you know what type of testing equipment is used for Igla-s?

1) The problem in terms of shelf life is not that drastic. The one element that poses a problem are batteries. But as has been demonstrated (notably in the case of the attack outside Nairobi airports with two SA-7), it is not that difficult to find alternative batteries,

2) Training is certainly a problem (the attack in Nairobi failed because the MANPADS were launched too early (ie plane not fat enough)), you could until fairly recently find the manuals to use the different MANPADS on the web. In any case, the numerous succesful attacks in Chechnya and other places show that you dont need advanced military training to use those weapons.

3) You are right in stressing that the main threat is from the proliferation of MANPADS from Russian conception (either sold from former Soviet Republics during the 1990s or then looted when State collapsed (such as in Iraq). The threat posed by the Stinger is less important – at the end of the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan, it was assessed that between 100 to 300 weapons given to the Mudjahidins had not been used. Some have been recovered since then (including buybacks). Otherewise, the Stinger has not proliferated (ie if you buy Stingers from the US, you have to accept that the US monitors them in your country (ie storage security, book-keeping….).

Igla and especially Igla-1 are wide proliferated and are one of bestsellers in the Black weapon market. Usual sources for black market are army inventory of former Soviet republics.
But shelf life depends on storage conditions and maintenance.
Most of “customers” are purchasing only missiles and launchers.
No spare parts, no training and testing means.
Even hand held weapon, but Igla is not AK-47!
As result, after several years missiles become unoperable.
Remember that Russian manpads are not maintenance free.
If certain country do not have such missile system in the inventory usual delivery should include N missiles with spares kit #1 (individual), N/100 spares kit #2, N/300 spares kit#3, approx. N/5 launchers and related spare kits, trainig sets with spare kits, testing means with spare kits.

Btw, do you know what type of testing equipment is used for Igla-s?

I thought Igla was used by Belarus, Brasil (56 launchers and 112 to Marines), Ecuador (Army), Finland (Army), India, Peru, Singapore, Ukraine, Vietnam (50 from 2002) and Yugoslavia?

…And Albania apprenetly. We have both the Igla and Igla-1. These things seem pretty easy to purchase from so many sources…We did and no one even knew about it. I have no idea where we got them from though…

can u give any link or whatsoever to the BDL’s licence production of the Iglas??

http://164.100.24.208/ls/CommitteeR/Defence/1Defence.pdf

The report I read suggests that the US found the SA-14 to be quite good against low level targets with good but not amazing flare and jammer resistance.

If you know otherwise how about a bit more info.

More serious joke – the recent AH-64 shotdown in Iraq was made by Strela-2M. At least, so are reports.

Russia do not need MANPADS – it is evident considering russian military doctrine and short range AA inventory.

Omg, so much wisdom in one phrase… Btw, the over post is very insightfull as well.

P.S. Its like telling “Russian dont need ATGM’s – its evident considering russian military doctrine and the use of tank guns”

US tests with SA-14 Gremlin show it to be quite a good missile.

Russian Army use of MANPADS is immaterial… this is a Russian company selling material to foreign countries, which it is legally entitled to do. It is not like the US giving away dangerous weapons to freedom fighters in Afghanistan and then not getting back unused items. These are bought and paid for commercial transactions… you know… capitalism.

‘…US tests with SA-14 Gremlin show it to be quite a good missile…’
Very good joke – i like it! Thanks!
Btw, that is the one of the reasons for 9/11 (and in London too) – both overstating or neglecting the threat.

US tests with SA-14 Gremlin show it to be quite a good missile.

Russian Army use of MANPADS is immaterial… this is a Russian company selling material to foreign countries, which it is legally entitled to do. It is not like the US giving away dangerous weapons to freedom fighters in Afghanistan and then not getting back unused items. These are bought and paid for commercial transactions… you know… capitalism.

Maxpain, any evidence?
Do you know when was first recorded combat use of Strela-2?

Pesho, no offence, but take a look at history of these weapons.
Consider other russian short-range AA weapons developed to related period and their place in combat order of Soviet/Russian Army.

I do not mean that such a missile could be appropriate AA ‘shield’ to submarine.

Guys, this thread should be renamed to MANPADS.

Why people continue to repeat myths developed by russian propaganda? Strela-2 has a very poor effectiveness. Even machine gun is better and much more cheaper.

Results of using 9K32 by Egyptian army in July 1968 – June 1970.
Launched rockets: 99
Planes hit or damaged: 36
Effectivness: 0,35
Is it low for begining of 1970s?

And what is their military doctrine that don’t need MANPADS?My country had similar doctrine and we use many Strela’s in infantry regiments.Don’t forget that MANPADS are present even in the russian submarines.

“Russian MANPADS are ambush weapons, hence vety suitable for terrorists.”
Yeah,only russian MANPADS are suitable for terrorists.Western one have attitude problem with them….

Russia do not need MANPADS – it is evident considering russian military doctrine and short range AA inventory.

There is no need for Russia to stop any sales to Syria, I say make good deals, after all billions can be made from these deals. And for the Russians to remember is that Isreal wont be paying billions for their lost deals, so go ahead and make good deals. After all its self-defence weapon and not any strike weapon.

As long as Syria ows a 12 billion debt to Russia related to former weapons deliveries, I see no usefull deal. Maybe Russia is in hope, that a new deal may force Syria to reduce those debts too. Good luck about that.

“Russian MANPADS are ambush weapons, hence vety suitable for terrorists.”
Yeah,only russian MANPADS are suitable for terrorists.Western one have attitude problem with them….