A-1 Skyraider – How it got it Sandy name

That is how I look at it stephen,they might have kept some components like the pilots seat and control column maybe 🙂 and then wheeled a new aircraft under them…as you said most manufacturers were/are evolutionary and one can see same or similar design features in their different aircraft !

Which probably explains why youn strip them of fabric and see hints of the Hurricane in the Sopwith Camel. Or ‘tother way round would be moree correct.

I understand they are still a few samples left behind in SEA!

I saw 1 and wreckage in Saigon/HCMC, 1 in Huey with a 3 bladed prop, 2 and wreckage in Hanoi. The Vietnamese seem to like them

..A-1E Skyraider nick “Bad News” somewhere in SEA c. 1968-69. Poss Code TS #609. Photo via USAF.

See post #20. Had nothing to do with sandblower, sandstorm, sandman, sanding paper, belt sander, the Earl of Sandwich or sand dunes.

And when we’re bored with the AD-1 = SPAD discussion, we can start on A4D = Ford.

That would be a very short discussion, so I’ll just get it out of the way now.

The A4D was NOT called “Ford… it was called “Scooter”, “Kiddiecar”, “Bantam Bomber”, “Tinker Toy Bomber”, and, on account of its nimble performance, “Heinemann’s Hot-Rod”.

The Douglas Aircraft Co. product that was nicknamed “Ford” was the F4D Skyray!

http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?13824-The-F4D-Skyray-set-records-but-was-%91bizarre-%92-pilots-say

The F4D Skyray set records but was ‘bizarre,’ pilots say

Issue Date: April 12, 2004

The Lore of the Corps
The F4D Skyray set records but was ‘bizarre,’ pilots say

By Robert F. Dorr
Special to the Times

Maj. Edward N. LeFaivre, a Marine test pilot, used an F4D-1 Skyray fighter to climb faster than any plane or pilot had ever climbed before.
With a climb to a height of 15,000 meters — 49,213 feet — in just 2 minutes, 36.05 seconds, LeFaivre on May 23, 1958, established an official record.

The Skyray was a kind of paradox in the history of the Cold War. Dubbed by pilots the “Ford” because of its F4D military designation, the plane was noted for rapid acceleration on takeoff and high performance in flight. But it also was difficult to handle, especially during the moments after takeoff, when it tended to yaw as the wheels came up.

According to Col. Jacques Naviaux, the flying qualities of the Skyray “ordered on the bizarre.”

Source: U.S. Navy National Museum of Naval Aviation photo No. 1996.253.7325

An early F4D-1 Skyray pictured in flight. On October 3, 1953, an F4D in full combat configuration set a new world speed record of 752.953 mph, the first carrier capable aircraft to do so and the first Navy/Marine fighter capable of exceeding Mach 1 in level flight. THe Skyray, called the “Ford” by its pilots, was accepted for operational use July 1956.

Skyraiders Folks:

Found this weary & a bit tired Skyraider flying machine! Somewhere SEA c. 1960s. Photo AEC via FB Let-Let Warplanes. It was designed & built to “fly & fight”. I understand they are still a few samples left behind in SEA! In memory of all those brave pilots & crews that flew it & maintain it!! TC 37-616.

p.s During the late 50’s some of these samples were a the top of the MAP list for S.America AFs but they never did make it!

As for Sandy? gawd knows

One of the very first SAR pilots in Vietnam used the callsign Sandy because it was the name of his dog, and soon the label was attached to all SAR missions. True dat.

They nicknamed the AD SPAD simply because it was, like the WWI Spad, archaic. Simple as that.

That is how I always thought it got the nickname, makes the most sense anyway.

As for Sandy? gawd knows, I’m sure the Op wasn’t really suggesting that it was because of flying low over a beach 😀

I love these threads – where so many of you can be right…until you start to disagree!!:diablo:

You don’t seem to understand what I wrote. Of course Vietnam-era airmen knew what a French Spad was, I’m not in any way contesting that. I’m just saying that you’re reading way too much into the reference by concluding that they named the AD “SPAD” because the WWI airplane was strong, tough, resilient, etc. etc. They nicknamed the AD SPAD simply because it was, like the WWI Spad, archaic. Simple as that.

You’re reading way too much into it. The people who began calling the AD “SPAD” had no idea whether the original SPAD was rugged or not–probably barely knew that it was some WWI airplane–and if they’d wanted a synonym for “rugged,” I doubt they would have chosen an ancient French airplane over a Mack truck, a Caterpillar bulldozer or any of hundreds of other ‘murrican symbols of strength.

I think that sweeping comment is incorrect, and I would be very surprised that at least some ground and air crews of Skyraiders would’nt have been aware of the ‘WWI airplane’ (some maybe even related to SPAD crews) and its huge significance to the American Army air force, if not the allied air battle in general, during WWI.
Their most celebrated American ace of the period, Eddie Rickenbacker, gained the vast majority of his kills on the SPAD XIII, it was the most numerous type in the force, served it well into the 1920s, and was well known for being rugged and dependable, vital for protection of the ground troops below.
All this only 50 years before the Vietnam war, and quite applicable to the Skyraider.

As for choosing an ‘aincent French airplane’ to coin a nickname over a Mack or something, they didn’t as it was used alongside names such as ‘Flying Dump Truck’.

The AD link to SPAD makes some sense in a coincidental retrospective way, but doesn’t make much sense as the main creator of the nickname, AD is said Ay Dee, SPAD doesn’t spring to mind when you say it.
‘Able Dog’ being mainly derived from the designation does make sense.

I don’t buy in to what you say and I will continue to believe what I have read (even if too much!) previously about the origins of the nickname, being mainly derived from the SPAD aircraft and not the AD designation.

Edit – NMUSAF seems to agree, http://www.nationalmuseum.af.mil/factsheets/factsheet.asp?id=297

That is how I look at it stephen,they might have kept some components like the pilots seat and control column maybe 🙂 and then wheeled a new aircraft under them…as you said most manufacturers were/are evolutionary and one can see same or similar design features in their different aircraft !

I was posting a picture of a predecessor to the Skyraider, that’s what I meant by “would become”.

Virtually all of any manufacturer’s airplanes are evolutionary. I’m sure there’s a little bit of the Lockheed 10 Electra in the Constellation, a little bit of the Piper Apache in the Cheyenne. But to say a midwing/gullwing, tri-gear maritime torpedo bomber (BTD-1) became a conventional-gear, straight/low-wing, ground attack airplane (XB2D-1) is, as I said before, a stretch.

Not denying that Ed Heinemann learned lessons from it, but that’s the way the creation of pretty much any airplane works. And of course you’re right in saying the BTD-1 was “a predecessor” of the Skyraider, though I think you’re wrong in saying it “would become” the Spad.

Did they? Think a few “invented” the concept of a flying machine before the Wright Brothers…

And even they may have been beaten by a German!

I think we are getting into serious thread drift. However, your argument could include leonardo da Vinci, but I think that would be a little disingenuous! Even the recent furore over who did infact make the first powered heavier than air flight points to another American. So I will still maintain my assertion that they (the Americans) invented this particular contraption. “and all your piety and wit will not change a word of it”.

Well they did invent the contraption…

Did they? Think a few “invented” the concept of a flying machine before the Wright Brothers…

And even they may have been beaten by a German!

I thought you would say something like that DC but I am totally underwhelmed by that argument…it is a totally different aircraft 😉

No bazv, I didn’t mix up the designation. I was posting a picture of a predecessor to the Skyraider, that’s what I meant by “would become”. I wouldn’t have said the XBT2D-1 prototype “would become” a Skyraider because it already was a Skyraider. According to Ed Heinemann, changing mission requirements from the Navy led them to to take the best features from the BTD-1 and what they had learned and apply it to the new mission. Nothing surprising about that really, just evolution. The BTD-1 first flew more than a year before the The XBT2D-1 and several months before the XBT2D-1 prototypes were even ordered. They didn’t start with a clean slate when they designed the XBT2D-1, they used what they thought were their best ideas at the time and applied them to the new mission requirements. Much of that came from the XSB2D-1/TBD-1 program, and allowed them to quickly develop the XBT2D-1 prototype.

See post #20. Had nothing to do with sandblower, sandstorm, sandman, sanding paper, belt sander, the Earl of Sandwich or sand dunes.

And when we’re bored with the AD-1 = SPAD discussion, we can start on A4D = Ford.

`Sandblower` was the mission nickname,long hours low-flying ,in the `weeds`,desert,sea,to drop ,hurl ,fling a nuke onto the `Red ` hordes..

Sandman = Sandy

I have a faint trace of a memory that I have read somewhere, sometime (rather vague, eh?) that some of the Skyraider missions were called Sandman. Loitering for hours and putting some unlucky souls to sleep.
Ken

Yes I am sure DC got his designations mixed up a little…try this for the prototype skyraider…
Douglas XBT2D-1

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