A bit of reality for british!

PILOTGHT, what exactly are you trying to achieve?

Are you even for real? (for all we know, he might be a CIA or Fox News plant whose purpose is to discredit the French. If so, they have unearthed a real nugget).

Seriously, are you French?

To most of the posters on this thread, I think he was asking for it and deserved what he got… Only I hope the most mature amongst you will realise he is no more representative of the French than hooligans are representative of the English (and I don’t mean that as a snide comment; I really do not think they are. They exist, just as arrogant French people exist, but I don’t think they are representative of the nation as a whole).

What has all that to do with AVIATION ?

At the risk of sounding anti british I think our french friend has a point. New Zealand, as well as Oz and Britain and Canada and the US are members of a group that operate the echelon system of “surveillance” that seems to have done more to allow boeing to win contracts than stop terrorist activity. All of the data collected by these listening stations is beamed direct to the US for processing and the member nations only get edited “intelligence” giving us the information the US wants us to see. Being quite cynical I would assume those sensitive bit of information that we are not allowed to see that remain secret are things that incriminate the US or do not go with current US policy… We get the “WMDs in 45 minutes” instead of the full picture.

Yes Gary nice to see you defending people who are being attacked again, very fair of you.

even my little son who is 7 years old know that irak haven’t and never had ability to hit europe with WMD!

Omigod! You are an adult!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

Originally posted by ageorge
The French have been invaded twice in the past 100 years – doe’s that mean that the next invader gets to keep them ??

Good thing we already made the first 2 tries. 😀

Guess we want try a third time. And as far as I remember Germany was the first european country that was openly against the war in Iraq, then another european country joined in and both became old europe.

What really surprises me is that a country that is know to use force to safeguard their national interests in africa, is so critcally of the Iraqi adventure.

Re: lol

Originally posted by PILOTGHT

the shame is perceptible even in UK!

so i’m the only one to call british Lackeys, or Suck@rs,

ho ho ho!

Do you believe everything in the French press? If you do you are a bigger fool than we first thought. We tend not to take a lot of notice of rubbish like that and certainly take what our press say with a couple of large shovels of salt so please – be a good boy and take you misguided ramblings to a web site that MIGHT appreciate them but don’t hold your breath waiting for a good response

It would be nice if some of you actually could read: ( This thead doesn’t belong in this section ) Or: had something that was considered useful in the area of Modern Military Aviation ( I have my doubts with some of you )

Re: lol

Originally posted by PILOTGHT
“Contrary to Paul Starobin’s admitedly excellent article (“the French were right”), Pilotght’s posting and yours don’t really contribute to any re-thinking and reconciliation.”

Maybe you claim that France should excuses for the iraq mess!

French did nothing more than advices!

Well, pardon me, but it sure seems you do a little more than giving advice… This looks more like insult to me. Or is this just some odd way to give advice in your corner of the country?

I never asked you or the French in general to excuse their (in)actions.
Please just read what I wrote: It’s unwise to add insult to injury. The USA and Britain are punished enough with the situation they’ve ridden themselves into. By insulting and inflaming them you just reach the opposite of what you want to achieve (namely them rethinking their policy). Insulting them makes them just more stubborn. There’s a growing tendency in their countries to rethink their policy (see starobin article). If you want to strengthen this process, you are advised to use constructive criticism. What you do just strengthens their hardliners.
Is this really so hard to understand?

Peut-être en français: ça ne sert à rien d’ insulter les Anglais ou les Américains. Ils sont punit déjà avec la situation qu’ils ont crée euxmèmes. Si tu les insultes, tu atteins le contraire de ce que tu veux. On remarque que dans leurs pays il’y a une tendence vers réevaluer leurs actions. (Voie article de Starobin) Si tu veux soutenir ce procès, il vaut mieux les critiquer dans une manière constructive. Ce que tu fait aide seulement les “hardliners”
Est-ce que c’est si difficile à comprendre?

lol

“Contrary to Paul Starobin’s admitedly excellent article (“the French were right”), Pilotght’s posting and yours don’t really contribute to any re-thinking and reconciliation.”

Maybe you claim that France should excuses for the iraq mess!

French did nothing more than advices!

the irrational and childish was from the “shock and awe”!

the blair Bush iraq nightmare isn’t that of the french, it never was!

French never bashed them, they even never needed to do it!

the reality is that coalitions countries will paye for that, politicly and financially!

WARNING! BORING ECONOMY BELOW!

Originally posted by GarryB
the US has plenty of money… they could afford 10 Iraqs for several years). He just wants someone else to go in and foot the bill… but hands off HIS oil contracts… even the British didn’t get a look at them.

I think you are wrong here Garry. The US’ is rich because other countries still pay for America’s wealth, by accepting the US dollar as the dominant international currency. Because of this, the US is the only country in the world which can maintain a large and increasing trade deficit. Basically they do this by exporting money.

But this desirable dollar is quickly loosing it’s eager customers. The trade deficit of course also generated some inflation, but this was not much of a problem since it kept international trade easy (cheap dollar = easy international trade). But at some point, the trade-deficit induced inflation will cause the dollar to become no longer a reliable and stable currency for international trade.

Now let’s look at Bush Jnr. as a president. Financially, his administration is absolutely moronic: a massive decrease in income due to tax cuts, combined with an increase in spending mostly due to the War on Terror and Operation Iraqi Anarchy. “Hey, we can do that, we simply export more dollars,” seems to be the thought.

So now there’s a larger budget deficit in the US government now than there ever was, and this directly translates to the American trade deficit growing. While this is partly compensated for by a growing American economy (GWB’s tax cuts actually work with tax-paranoid Americans), part of it is not.

To make matters worse, the US itself is frustrating international trade (equals to dollar circulation, which equals to the rest of the world paying for the US’ deficit) by trade sanctions. To make matters worse, GWB’s foreign policy brought the popularity of his country in the world to a new low. To make matters worse, with the Euro a new currency has popped up which proves to be long-term stable and is supported by a well-established banking and economical basis (even when France and Germany are screwing around with the Stability Pact).

If you ask me, the war …uhm, sorry, ‘new freedom’… in Iraq shouldn’t last a decade. The US can’t afford it, and by that time the rest of the world will no longer be ready to pay it for them.

What I intended to say is that criticism leads nowhere as long as it is not constructive. Spreading sarcasm will only make the US more stubborn. If we really want to build bridges, we have to refrain from just putting their noses into their **** and offer alternatives instead. If the USA attempts unilateral nation building, it will fail, as Starobin pointed out correctly in his article, since the USA is seen as an occupying force, not a liberator. http://nationaljournal.com/about/njweekly/stories/2003/1107nj1.htm
This is where the UN, (and not only other western countries, but them too) have to step in again.

Bush jnr said going in that the invasion would take place either with the rest of the world (through the UN) or without it… he chose without. He has found he is having trouble and wants the help of the international community (he doesn’t actually need it.

Fortunately it’s not only Bush that makes decisions. Koffi Anan should at least have as much to say. Nation building in Iraq is an international responsibility, even though I agree on that the USA should pay their share (and pay their debts to the UN likewise).
The longer the country is left to the USA alone, the more it will desintegrate and the costlier nation building will become later.

And you think what the muslim world needs to see is the rest of the world not taking the p!ss and laughing at the US and co and instead helping them fill in the hole they have dug for themselves and the Iraqi people. I don’t think so.

I think the muslim world would appreciate an attempt of the other western states to hand over things to the UN again and taking an active role in Iraq nation building together with muslim nations instead of just laughing our heads of. Things are not comical after all…

What are you saying m.ileduets?

I thought one of the reasons Blair gave for following bush jnr was so that he could still have influence on bush jnr and what he did. Didn’t seem to have much effect if you ask me.

“The muslim world somehow has to see an alternative picture of western nations again, soon.”

And you think what the muslim world needs to see is the rest of the world not taking the p!ss and laughing at the US and co and instead helping them fill in the hole they have dug for themselves and the Iraqi people. I don’t think so.

Bush jnr said going in that the invasion would take place either with the rest of the world (through the UN) or without it… he chose without. He has found he is having trouble and wants the help of the international community (he doesn’t actually need it… the US has plenty of money… they could afford 10 Iraqs for several years). He just wants someone else to go in and foot the bill… but hands off HIS oil contracts… even the British didn’t get a look at them.

I have nothing against the American or British soldiers who I assume are doing their best. But Bush jnr has made a mistake and Blair has made a mistake following him and it is the British and American soldiers that will pay for that mistake.

Hope the oil was worth it… everyone is trying to work out how many US soldiers have died since the day Bush jnr made some speech…how often do you see an account of the Iraqis killed published, printed, or televised? What was this war about again?

anyway, good luck in Londonistan and elsewhere guys, u need and will need it, assuming the responsabilities of clowns’ foreign politics

Contrary to Paul Starobin’s admitedly excellent article (“the French were right”), Pilotght’s posting and yours don’t really contribute to any re-thinking and reconciliation. If you really want to change British and American foreign politics, you have to stop adding insult to their injury…

The French had to learn their lesson too in Algeria. It would have been just as useless to be sarcastic about it back then. It only would have made them more stubborn.
Of course the “Coalition of the willing” have ridden themselves into a big mess, but to better it we have to stop rubbing their noses into it, pull up our sleeves and offer our assistance in Iraq nation building.
The muslim world somehow has to see an alternative picture of western nations again, soon. Else we really might end up in a full-blown clash of cultures.

yeah that’s it, call what Donald Rumsfeld name “Old Europe” when u’ll find WMDs in Irak

Blair ( Bliar ) is and has been the Bush’s poodle on Irak, at least everyone agree with that now, even the uk journalists 😎

in this story again, the brits are the vassals of the U$A foreign politic , ( always present to divise EU btw )

and NATO , a political tool of you know who, under the command of you know who, continues at serving the interests of the same

the problem now is that a clown is president of the USA ,
go, go, follow him in his deep mess he’s just created, increasing the worldwide terrorist threats
in the same time, full oil billion $$ cash flow for the US neocons,the Hawks team for sure and for the U$ dollar :rolleyes:
nice one for the “full gold”
but it seems it isn’t a problem for some countries in the € zone :rolleyes:

isolate, attack, insult France, divise EU for a better US power :
I guess it’s the anglo-saxon thing ( some ghosts of Napoleon , nightmares where there wouldn’ have been a channel between France and UK
–> no Louisiana purchase and everyone could actually be speaking French on this board 😀 )
I’m not totally dreaming

look at the Bush and Bliar popularity rate in the world now,
it seems that things are evolving in the good way in some minds :
the French were right

but it’s too late 🙂

anyway, good luck in Londonistan and elsewhere guys, u need and will need it, assuming the responsabilities of clowns’ foreign politics

more freedom fries to all of you

you are deep in it

Has anyone noticed that Paul wolfowitz looks like a cross between Tony blair and Bush? Coincidence? :p

“Your juvenile stupidity embarrasses your country.”

Right…:o 😮 😮

I fully agree there, Eric !

What is funny is the moron doesn’t know to post sh!t like this in the general area. NOT HERE. Idiot.

That statement coming from an Indian made it sort of sound like a peace- pipe offer to Chinese and Pakistani. (It seemed at least that he could sort of smile about the past). Good thing you erased your posting. There’s truly enough flaming going on here it seems… If you’d like, I’ll erase mine, too, so there won’t be anything left of this 😉

Originally posted by m.ileduets
Well, this statement of rather strong emotions against an other nationality sort of supports the opposite… Or was that intended irony?

If you’ve been to through the flame wars just a few months ago when the FC-1 came out, you’d undertstand.

I’ve erased my post. I had initially thought that a westerner had made that remark otherwise I wouldn’t have answered.

Originally posted by GoldenDragon
Never put Chinese and Indian in the same sentence. We’ve nothing to do with Indians.

Well, this statement of rather strong emotions against an other nationality sort of supports the opposite… Or was that intended irony?