A couple of Spit profiles

Hi, my name is Geoffrey Sutherland and I’m Max Sutherland’s grandson, I know very little about him and I’m trying to find out more, I have some wartime photos handed down from my father I could share with you but I’d love to learn more stories/see pictures of him, it wasn’t talked about and my father sadly passed away 13 years ago, my email is [email]gsutherland001@gmail.com[/email] any info/places to look for info would be great! Thanks in advance!

Y.32 Ophoven etc.

Hi Karel

Thanks for the picture of the Butler hangar – Peter Celis, who wrote “Runways to Victory” confirmed to me a few years ago now that the 41 squadron picture (pilots and jeep with Butler behind) was taken at Y.32.
I have been helping the family of the (late) CO of 130 (Punjab) Squadron (Phil Tripe) with research and they are coming over to the Mardaga Hotel in As in January to commemorate the 65th anniversary of his baling out (after being hit by “friendly” US flak) near to the Mardaga, his favourite drinking spot!!

Are you around in mid-January to show them anything (PM me if you can help)? I know it is just fields now as I visited it in November 2004.

cheers

Allan

Hi Dan, thanks for these 🙂 – how about passing them over to Steve Brew ? I will check the background hangar with a Belgian contact to see if it matches up to anything at Schaffen/Diest, especially as they came from Terry and he had left 41 before the moved to Volkel, on detachment to 122 Wing as top cover, at the end of January ’45. The rifles one could be taken at Ophoven – Dad says that when he moved there at the end of December ’44 – just before Bodenplatte – the area was packed with Allied armour because of the “Bulge” and they were always on the lookout for German saboteurs. cheers – Allan

According to my father, it could be the hangar at Y-32 Ophoven. As a kid he went there almost every day, he lived in the neigbourhood of the field and his parents owned a piece of land at the airfield. He once had the opportunity to visit this hangar.
In “Thunder Monsters over Europe”, book of Reginald G. Nolte about 405th fighter group you can find a picture of the hangar at Y-32.

Karel

Great profiles Dan;

If you ever have some more time to kill, I would not mind you to do so at East India 65 S spitfires MkII’s;

P7665 YT-L from flown by Geoffrey Hill, and P8147 YT-W flown by Svatopluk Stulir.
Have learned the stories behind both of these BoB pilots over the years..

Hi Canberra man

I believe that the R designated a post-war reserve (auxiliary) squadron – in one of my many Spitfire books I have a photo of a Spifire XXII of 613 (City of Manchester) Squadron showing RATE on PK331, another shows FJWL, on an XVI, which is from the Central Gunnery School.

No doubt Mark 12 will fill you in with the detail

cheers

Allan

RAG-J. A Mk 22 Spitfire of 600 Squadron with the serial number PK663. It was based at Biggin Hill circa 1948-50.

Three digit unit codes for Reserve Command post WWII.

Mark

ps.

I see I have a shot of a Mk 21 with 600 Squadron LA328, also RAG-J, the last aircraft in this line. This would be circa 1946-48.

4 letter codes

Hi.
My brother in law showed me a photo of a spitfire with a four letter code. I knew that senior officers could use their initials as a code. It is particularly relevant because they are my brother in law’s own initials RAGJ. Is there any way of tracing its originality?

Canberra man.

Hi Canberra man

I believe that the R designated a post-war reserve (auxiliary) squadron – in one of my many Spitfire books I have a photo of a Spifire XXII of 613 (City of Manchester) Squadron showing RATE on PK331, another shows FJWL, on an XVI, which is from the Central Gunnery School.

No doubt Mark 12 will fill you in with the detail

cheers

Allan

Well, I think I’ve got this one sussed. What’s the main external difference between a Spit IIa and a Va? If memory serves is that the Spitfire V had a more powerful Merlin that required a bigger oil cooler under the port wing. This oil cooler had a oval air intake, the smaller oil cooler on the Spit II had a D shaped air intake. If you look at the air intake below which is a crop from the full sized photo on Dilip’s site, you will find that the intake of the Spitfire with the gun camera being changed is D shaped, hence its more likely a Spit II in the photo and not a Spit Va. That is unless the bigger oil cooler on the Mark V was a modification that happened after the type came into service. Somebody with more knowledge on the Spit than me would have to confirm that.

Spitfire Squadron code.

Hi.
My brother in law showed me a photo of a spitfire with a four letter code. I knew that senior officers could use their initials as a code. It is particularly relevant because they are my brother in law’s own initials RAGJ. Is there any way of tracing its originality?

Canberra man.

Victory Production Decals

Hello Chaps,
Oh my godness, I found another reference, this is a set of Victory Production Decals “Aces of the Empire” and spitfire P7966 shows the famous nose art.
The lesson that I learned is:
“Never use as references plastic models decals or Osprey Books” LOL 🙂

Douglas Bader

Hello BIGVERN1966, I hope you are doing well.
Finally I found a couple of pictures of Douglas Bader spitfires, the source is Dilip Sakar webpage, one of them is W/C Bader climb out from his spitfire and that aircraft do not shows any nose art.
The next one is his Spitfire Mk V and its shows his famous nose art.
I think, that Spitfire Mk II P7966 has not nose art but Spitfire Mk V W3185 has nose art but I might be wrong anyway thank you so much for clear some doubts regarding those famous aces and theirs machines.

Hello Chaps,
Regarding the spitfire of S/L Brian Lane, on Osprey Book “Spitfire Mark I/II Aces 1939 – 1941” appears P9386 profile and the letter K is medium sea gray but on W/C Douglas Bader, P7966 profile has not any nose art like BIGVERN1966 drawings, also on Revell Spitfire 1/48 has not nose art in its decals. This aircraft was a presentation spitfire, wearing the legend “Manxman” below the cockpit on its starboard side.

Best Regards.

Met a rigger from 19 Sqn who worked on the aircraft while at Folwmere, yesterday at Duxford, K code on P9386 was medium sea gray as far as he remembers (and he saw the aircraft in Technicolor, so I believe him). As for P7966, look at page 147 of ‘Spitfire! Courage and Sacrifice’ by Dilip Sarkar, there is a photo of the nose art on P7966 (though there is a typo on the text under the photo which list the aircraft as P9766 (not a spitfire serial)). Revell, Aeromaster and Ospray all got it wrong I’m afraid.

S/L Brian Lane´s spitfire

Hello Chaps,
Regarding the spitfire of S/L Brian Lane, on Osprey Book “Spitfire Mark I/II Aces 1939 – 1941” appears P9386 profile and the letter K is medium sea gray but on W/C Douglas Bader, P7966 profile has not any nose art like BIGVERN1966 drawings, also on Revell Spitfire 1/48 has not nose art in its decals. This aircraft was a presentation spitfire, wearing the legend “Manxman” below the cockpit on its starboard side.

Best Regards.

Well boys, Truthspeaker was the guy I did them for, and he knows a damm bit more about Spitfires than I do (plus having written books about 19 Sqn during the period that that aircraft was on the Sqn, he most likely knows all of the details). If he states the codes on QV-K were Medium Sea Grey, then they are Medium Sea Grey. (Remember the QV on the port side was closer to the exhaust stacks than the K, hence more likely to be covered in soot and therefore darker).

Brian Lane’s Spitfire

Hi Richie

Nice artwork – however, “Spitfire pilot” might have a point about the white K – I have attached a photo, believed to be taken at Fowlmere in September ’40, and the K definitely appears to be “brighter” than the QV.

Now wait for the b/w photo techies to come up with a full analysis of what they perceive to be the difference, if any!!?

Hope it helps

cheers

Allan

I don’t recall ever reading of the white ID letter…. :confused:

Not to say that’s impossible, of course, but there are photos around of that Spitfire in various books, which make no mention of it.

Spitfire QV-K P9386

Hello BIGVERN1966, your spitfires are great but I have a little doubt regarding S/L Lane’s spitfire.
In Aeromaster Decals shows that spitfire and the text is the following:
Spitfire Mk I serial no P9386 code QV-K flown by Squadron Leader Brian Lane of No 19 Squadron based at Fowlmere in September 1940. The aircraft is finished in the Dark Earth and Dark Green upper surfaces and Sky underside. This aircraft had a yellow spinner and white individual aircraft code letter. Both of these distinguishing colours were to identify the Squadron Leader to his fellow pilots during combat.
Is this correct?

Best Regards.

Three Spitfires

For anybody going to DX for the BBMF 50th Airshow tomorrow, check out the Victory Books Stand, My first commisioned work (450 x 320 mm prints) will be on sale there as part of the Book signing going on (I’ve no idea how much they are going for). Profiles attached below (and yes Allen125, they are weathered).

How about G-FIRE?

Hi Richie

contact me at allan(dot)hillman(at)btinternet(dot)com and I will send you a at least one picture from the left showing the Lion Rampant.

cheers

Allan

p.s. now managed to add two with left side Lion Rampant – one is “Max” Sutherland who was twice CO of 602 and the other one is of one of Clostermanns

Nice profile and poster – however, you appear to have left off the Scottish “Lion Rampant” from the XVI

I know that the Squadron aircraft carried the marking on the starboard side of their Spitfires. I didn’t known that it was on the port side as well. Corrections will be made.

Richie