The Vulcan B Mk2 has a differently shaped leading edge design from the B Mk1. For all I know, it could be a re-designed wing. Can anyone tell me what aerodynamic advantages were gained by the kinked shape we see on the B2?
Also, the Vulcan at the RAF Museum Cosford has been labelled as being made by Hawker Siddley. I’ve always known it as the ‘Avro’ Vulcan. Was it ever officially called the Hawker Siddley Vulcan?
Cheers
By: exmpa - 20th August 2007 at 08:46
but can anyone elaborate on why a minimum ZFW?
I cannot elaborate because I do not know the reasons. As I said earlier it was not a limitation that would normally be approached in service, even when we took aircraft down to St Athan for major servicing and they had had most of the role equipment removed. I do not even recall it being discussed on the OCU course and they did tend to go into the dark and dusty corners of the books.
Rather than speculate on the reasons I shall enquire of a couple of acquaintances who are much better qualified than I am. They have done the Difficult Sums Course at ETPS.
exmpa
By: Ron Cuskelly - 19th August 2007 at 22:58
To keep the thread going, here is another Vulcan question. Reference has been made elsewhere on this forum to the Vulcan having a MINIMUM Zero Fuel Weight. Doubtless it has a maximum ZFW as well but can anyone elaborate on why a minimum ZFW?
By: Seafuryfan - 19th August 2007 at 22:16
Cheers
Thanks for all your replies. The beauty of having a question answered on this board is the wealth of information offered by resident experts from varied backgrounds. I thank you all!
That wing really is a marvel to gaze up at. No matter what our opinions on the merits of doing so, a flying Vulcan returning to the sky will be a sight to behold.
By: exmpa - 19th August 2007 at 21:02
Boulton Paul I believe….;)
You are most probably right. Hobson stuck in my mind for some reason, maybe because I spent so long understanding the innards of their injector!
The last I heard some young engineer had “invented” this sort of PFCU recently for commercial a/c. Something about being less susceptable to hydraulic failures and redundency.
Yes, I have sometimes pondered that one, but having also flown a couple of the modern “electric jets” I’m not so sure.
exmpa
By: Ramshornvortex - 19th August 2007 at 20:33
Vulcan PFCUs
IIRC they were made by Hobson
Boulton Paul I believe….;)
By: Robert Hilton - 19th August 2007 at 20:27
That’s correct, 10 in total; one per horizontal surface and primary and secondary for the rudder. IIRC they were made by Hobson. I believe that the elevon PFCUs were all the same but that the rudder units were more powerful. I was once told that the starting load on the rudder units was 600amps!
exmpa
The last I heard some young engineer had “invented” this sort of PFCU recently for commercial a/c. Something about being less susceptable to hydraulic failures and redundency.
By: exmpa - 19th August 2007 at 19:01
I assume then that like the Victor, the Vulcan had independant units with their own motor, pump and hydraulic cylinder?
That’s correct, 10 in total; one per horizontal surface and primary and secondary for the rudder. IIRC they were made by Hobson. I believe that the elevon PFCUs were all the same but that the rudder units were more powerful. I was once told that the starting load on the rudder units was 600amps!
exmpa
By: RPSmith - 19th August 2007 at 18:07
Hawker Siddeley took over Avro in the early sixties and 1963 the brand Avro disappeared.Martin
A.V.Roe & Co Ltd was actually bought by John Siddeley’s Armstrong Siddeley Development Co (Sir W.G.Armstrong Whitworth Aircraft Ltd. and Armstrong Siddeley Motors) from the Crossley family in 1928. It is said he bought the ailing company to ensure a continued market for ASM aero engines (Lynx engines for the Avro 504N).
In 1935 Siddeley (by now Sir John) sold his ownership of Armstrong Siddeley Development Co to Hawker Aircraft – thus forming Hawker Siddeley.
Roger Smith.
By: Robert Hilton - 19th August 2007 at 16:40
*A hangover to the Mk1 flying control system was still present on the Mk2. The Power Flying Control (PFC) panel on the left outboard console still had start buttons labelled E,R,A. The E button started the inboard elevon PFC units and the A the outboard units. The R started both Rudder units although only one was engaged at any one time, the second unit acting as a standby.
Vulcanpilot can no doubt recall the additional function of the R start button.
exmpa
I assume then that like the Victor, the Vulcan had independant units with their own motor, pump and hydraulic cylinder?
By: exmpa - 19th August 2007 at 08:17
Vulcanpilot has the reason correct, reduction high speed buffet and associated lateral control issues. Remember that the Mk1 series had separate ailerons and elevator surfaces (outboard and inboard resp.), the elevon system was only intoduced on the Mk2*. The high speed buffet affected the aileron hinge loading and limited the amount of control that could be applied in certain circumstances. There was concern about the loads imposed on the structure and a fear that this could lead to failure of the outer wing section. The cure was the compound sweep and the reflex camber on the outer leading edge. The primary aim of these modifications was to reduce Centre of Pressure movement with change in Mach No.
It is also worth bearing in mind that the Mk2 had in effect a new wing. The main difference was a larger outer section with a further refined section. Both Thickness/Chord and Aspect Ratios altered significantly although because of the higher Max Takeoff Weight (MTOW) the wing loading remained substantially the same. The trailing edge was also swept on the Mk2.
*A hangover to the Mk1 flying control system was still present on the Mk2. The Power Flying Control (PFC) panel on the left outboard console still had start buttons labelled E,R,A. The E button started the inboard elevon PFC units and the A the outboard units. The R started both Rudder units although only one was engaged at any one time, the second unit acting as a standby.
Vulcanpilot can no doubt recall the additional function of the R start button.
exmpa
By: SPIT - 19th August 2007 at 00:53
Hi
There is a very good book just out called “VULCAN TEST PILOT” and this should answer all your questions ??:eek: 😮
By: vulcanpilot - 18th August 2007 at 21:11
The Phase 2 Wing was introduced to counter the issues with high-speed buffet and the subsequent issues with fatigue of the wing structure. VX777 flew with the Phase 2 wing to prove its suitability. The improvement was embodied in many (most?) B.1’s and all B.2’s.
It is a moot point as to whether the Vulcan was renamed as the HS Vulcan – it was always known within as the Avro Vulcan…
By: wieesso - 18th August 2007 at 20:35
The Vulcan was produced 1956 – 1965 and was the last military aircraft produced by Avro. Hawker Siddeley took over Avro in the early sixties and 1963 the brand Avro disappeared.
It’s the same with the DeHavilland DH114 Heron, later named Hawker Siddeley HS Heron.
Martin
By: Lindy's Lad - 18th August 2007 at 20:17
I THINK the re design in the wing occured just before the B2 production – I think I have seen some B1A’s with the Kink in the leading edge. Aerodynamics was the reason – better lift, stall speed, low speed handling, etc.
Did Hawker Siddley take over Avro during the Vulcan’s production run, or soon after it? I too have seen them labelled as HS Vulcans, but never gave it a thought…..
There are far more knowledgable people on here than me, so thats my two peneth….
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August 18, 2007 at 5:25 pm