A curious German weapon

There is one American forum that I occasionally visit that thinks this guy is the cat’s behind! I almost got the boot when I mentioned how he rips off other sites, forums and books to post ” his ” stuff and how he never ever makes any comments afterwards.

Chris

Sorry to hear that Chris, but not surprised. It doesn’t take much effort to be a respected ‘expert’ these days!

🙂

Would it have made a difference? There seem to be different performance figures around for it, some showing a top speed of less than 400mph, which would have made it vulnerable to allied prop fighters, never mind any emerging jets, which also brings up the point of all these ‘wonder weapons’; advances were going on on both sides, had the war lasted long enough for the Ju287 to enter service, would it have been up against Mustangs and Tempests or would it have met Meteors, P80s, Vampires etc?

I think it’s rather rude to post a question and not to acknowledge an answer made by someone sincerely trying trying to answer a question But now that we’re wise to his methods and motive, just ignore him.

And I do, like Stepwilk, when I post a controversial reply, I don’t bother to reply, life is too short to get into internet arguments.
Besides, there are a lot of nutters, quick to take personal offense to innocuous posts, even on “friendly” aviation history forums.r

Good lord. There are dozens of posts every week that I don’t follow up on either. If I respond to some site that Donald Trump is a moron, I’m done. Not getting into a micturation match.

Nothing. Some people dislike Pampa’s conduct on here, because he doesn’t ever follow up on an initial post and might be making money (shock horror) from traffic going through his site. They make sure their views are known and understood by posting the same thing on every Pampa thread, thus giving the guy more coverage and ‘reach’ on this forum.

I don’t understand, though I have seen these outraged complaints about Pampa 14 a number of times now. It seems to me–perhaps I’m too much of an outsider–that he collects some photos of a specific airplane and publishes them on some apparently Brazilian blog. Okay, fine, I visit the blog, scroll through the photos and I’m done. He hasn’t charged me to visit the site and as far as I know hasn’t stolen my identity or email. Big deal. The photos are usually relatively ordinary, but so what?

Yet let some Brit forum member post a couple of Spitfire photos and everybody is full of praise and thanks.

What am I missing?

There is one American forum that I occasionally visit that thinks this guy is the cat’s behind! I almost got the boot when I mentioned how he rips off other sites, forums and books to post ” his ” stuff and how he never ever makes any comments afterwards.

Chris

He (I assume he, although I have nothing to base this on) isn’t ours (unless you consider “ours” to include the other 43 sites at least that he posts exactly the same stuff on), or for that matter curious. Brazilian probably, although he often pretends otherwise. At least this time he states his subject clearly so you can find all of the pictures for yourself from the original sites he uses.

It’s our curious Brazilian.

It’s more than likely why it was never followed through. Think of the fuel burn cruising across the pacific at 150mph towards Tokyo. It’s the same issue that stopped Horsa’s and Hamilcars being used during the Berlin airlift as their low tow speed would of cluttered the corridor.

That said, there was always the plan to snatch Hotspurs from the decks of carriers in 1942 for use in the far east but that’s for another thread 🙂

Hotspurs as glider bombs is as good an idea as Aphrodite or Mistel but I still think the low speed of the glider / tug combo would be a problem. I have checked and I was correct with the max towing speed of the Hotspur being 150 mph (note mph NOT knots).
Going back to the original post about Mistel, I’ve seen a proposal for a piggyback tug for the Hamilcar using a P38 Lightning.

RAE had mods for Mk I, Mk V and Mk IX Spits to convert them to glider tugs. The RAE tried the idea on a MkI and then the Airborne Forces Experimental Establishment carried out performance trials on the Mk V and Mk IX.
The Canadians were towing their Hotspurs with Spit Mk IX so I assume the mod was applied to at least one squadrons worth of aircraft.
The towing mod was really simple with the addition of a pyrotechnic fired release device to the tail wheel axle and some associated cables. The big problem with Spits towing Hotspurs was the glider’s VNE (IIRC) of 150 mph.

Yeah that’s pretty much it. 🙂 There were a number or Spit versions that had the hitch conversion to tow a Hotspur and as stated the idea was that the Hotspur could be used to carry equipment/fuel so that fighter units operating from forward strips/ALGs wouldn’t have to wait for road transport to catch up with them.

I *think* it’s just co-incidence that it was a Canadian squadron involved in the trials and the Hotspurs sent to Canada where sent with the intention of forming a Glider Training School. The idea was abandoned and when the gliders arrived they were put into storage. A couple were procured by the US Navy, some the USAAF and a couple of Horsa’s were sent state side too. One of the chaps from No.1 GTS was sent over with the gliders to help the Americans assemble and test them.

As said, the details I have was that they were going to pack the gliders with explosives and glide them into Japanese cities. I guess the idea is that the towing aircraft, devoid of bombs, can carry more fuel to extend it’s range and just loose off the glider and fly it in remotely.

I always wondered why the fighter had its gear down when the combination was on the ground. Were the systems linked perhaps?

there,s a photo in Aviation News vol 13,no.18,of a Mistel S3A combination at Farnborough for a public open day in Nov. 1945, amongst other captured aircraft. It comprised Ju 88A-6 W.nr 2492- Air Min.77, and Fw 190A-4 W.nr 733759, where the u/c on the Fw.190, is in the retracted position.

Just remembered Mimoyecques operation was shown in What the Dambusters did next.
http://www.channel5.com/shows/what-the-dambusters-did-next/episodes/what-the-dambusters-did-next
34 min in to 38mins.

Not quite correct Xtangomike.

August 12th 1944. Target, V1 site at Mimoyecques. PB4Y-1 (ex USAAF B-24 J 42- 110007). The single US Navy BQ-8 took off from Fersfield, heading towards Southwold. At an altitude of 2000ft it prematurely detonated over Blyth estuary Suffolk, killing LT Joseph P Kennedy Jr and L T Wilford J Willy. Kennedy’s body was never found.

I seem to remember seeing one of the bomb doors in Parham Aviation Museum. One of the few pieces of any size which
was found. I also remember seeing the incident portrayed in a TV film, many years ago.

I recall visiting the Mimoyecques several years ago and there being a memorial to Lt Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr there and a quite good information board on Operation Aphrodite – The Mimoyecques site was not a V-1 site, but a huge purpose built undergroud facility to house a battery of experimental multi-chamber high velocity guns, nicknamed the “London Cannon” or later simply “V-3”.

Thanks N. Witherspoon. Yes that would be right, my source was Norfolk Airfields in the second world war by Graham Smith. 2007 version. Will insert a note into the book for future ref.

RAE had mods for Mk I, Mk V and Mk IX Spits to convert them to glider tugs. The RAE tried the idea on a MkI and then the Airborne Forces Experimental Establishment carried out performance trials on the Mk V and Mk IX.
The Canadians were towing their Hotspurs with Spit Mk IX so I assume the mod was applied to at least one squadrons worth of aircraft.
The towing mod was really simple with the addition of a pyrotechnic fired release device to the tailwheel axle and some associated cables. The big problem with Spits towing Hotspurs was the glider’s VNE (IIRC) of 150 mph.

Jed, did the Hotspurs go to Canada? The evidence I have is of a UK based RCAF Spitfire squadron towing the Hotspurs with the idea that the gliders would transport ground support personnel and stores to the Advanced Landing Grounds in Normandy imediately after D-day.

Would that be the “Hasty Hitch” conversion – I think I read that only two MkVs were converted for trials – I was interested at one time, because one of them crashed near to my previous residence in Lancashire, though not whilst towing – see: Spitfire JK940 – Blackburn -23rd December 1944

I think a few of the Hotspurs sent to the RCAF ended up in the US as part of the project

Jed, did the Hotspurs go to Canada? The evidence I have is of a UK based RCAF Spitfire squadron towing the Hotspurs with the idea that the gliders would transport ground support personnel and stores to the Advanced Landing Grounds in Normandy imediately after D-day.

Not quite correct Xtangomike.

August 12th 1944. Target, V1 site at Mimoyecques. PB4Y-1 (ex USAAF B-24 J 42- 110007). The single US Navy BQ-8 took off from Fersfield, heading towards Southwold. At an altitude of 2000ft it prematurely detonated over Blyth estuary Suffolk, killing LT Joseph P Kennedy Jr and L T Wilford J Willy. Kennedy’s body was never found.

I recall visiting the Mimoyecques several years ago and there being a memorial to Lt Joseph P. Kennedy, Jr there and a quite good information board on Operation Aphrodite – The Mimoyecques site was not a V-1 site, but a huge purpose built undergroud facility to house a battery of experimental multi-chamber high velocity guns, nicknamed the “London Cannon” or later simply “V-3”.

One of the better Wikipedia pages on the site here: Fortress of Mimoyecques

IIRC the complex had apparently proved impervious to conventional bombing and even an earlier attempt using Tallboys had left it appearing pretty much unscathed. So the plan was to fly the explosive laden B-24 directly into the main entrance, which would have required a high degree of accuracy? Perhaps explaining why the equipment on board the B-24 was apparently so sensitive? Ironically, unknown to the allies the Tallboys had in fact done their work and much of the site had been rendered useless for its original purpose anyway.