August 28, 2005 at 4:13 pm
Clearly the activities and content of the IWM Duxford arouse strong passions among many of us. (See: http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=47123) I thought a short essay looking at some factors and other areas, plus some ideas might broaden the discussion a little and hopefully encourage us to look at the familiar in a different way. Nothing here is intended as a personal attack, and if you take it as such, I’d ask you to consider what ground you stand on and why before responding. I’m happy to debate, but I’m not interested in attrition or shouting. I do hope that we can manage some fact founded discussion.
I think what has to come first is that in my experience Duxford airfield has to be regarded as the premier vintage aviation site in the world. There are other places which do aspects better, but as a basket of lots of different activities, there’s nothing like it. And that’s the first problem; it’s not one ‘thing’ but many. It’s a great strength, it has a lot of ‘stakeholders’ and these, myself included, are a lot of people who are passionate about it but without a responsibility to direct the place. That allows us to be rational or emotional as we choose, and we are certainly are unaccountable for our preferences. Those running the museum, and those working for the IWM have an accountability and responsibility that is often forgotten by the rest of us.
Secondly it’s not even ‘just’ an airfield. It is a lot more than that. It is a museum operated by the Imperial War Museum and Cambridgeshire County Council, and the RAF sold its interest in the site, with no desire to retain a stake, in 1969. Back then the IWM, Cambridgeshire and the Duxford Aviation Society joined to set up the airfield we know. Initially, the IWM were primarily interested in a museum store, and their brief did not include active aviation use, though, luckily, the runway was purchased as part of the deal.
This is where the first divergence of belief can occur. If you wonder what was intended, you need only look to the Science Museum’s outstation at Wroughton in Wiltshire. It too is an ex-military airfield, bought with runway and hangars and used for storage by the Science Museum. Despite some excellent attempts to bring the place to life, with several airshows over the years, the Science Museum have gradually squeezed the active from the place and are currently looking at ripping up the runway to establish a new and strange concept – ‘Creative Planet’, worthy, perhaps but certainly misplaced at Wroughton. (See: http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/wroughton/creativeplanet.asp and http://www.nmsi.ac.uk/creativeplanet/pdfs/creativeplanet.pdf )
But back to Duxford. Though an airfield, from day one the IWM intended to use it as a store for all its large objects – tanks, trucks, boats and planes, guns and rockets; as well as the 1,001 other items in store on the north side that most of us aren’t even aware of. This mix has often been seen by the aviation enthusiast as a distraction from the aviation offering; but the IWM hold a brief covering all aspects of war, not just aviation, and the spread of technology encourages both visitors who otherwise would not consider it as a destination, and comparison among other types of technology and sacrifice in war.
An example is the wartime garden by the prefab hut. Both distinctly ‘odd’ on an airfield, but central to the IWM’s brief and complimenting the 1940s house project at IWM Lambeth. I visited Duxford with a teenage boy who was ‘gee whizz’ about the jets (he’ll grow out of it, I hope) but as a country lad, as fascinated by this wartime kitchen garden as the aircraft – not something you’d expect from either direction, and a lesson, I hope in illustrating that the wartime experience isn’t just Spitfires, but Spitfires, X-Craft and surviving the home front, among many other things. “Why at Duxford?” is the rhetorical question – well, because it’s one of the IWM’s museums, not just an aviation museum is an answer.
Several people are concerned at the ‘loss’ of ‘atmosphere’ at Duxford. This is, firstly, a reasonable concern, but I feel somewhat unrealistic in that those same people often are keen to see the vintage aviation taking place on the airfield. It is not the base of the Battle of Britain Memorial Flight, it does not belong to, or have a primary allegiance to the RAF; so while it might be nice to have it dedicated to the RAF years (usually we think of 1940 of course) the loss in all the other things that IWM (note, not RAF) Duxford contains is an unreasonable price. It’s also not possible to turn the clock back to pre 1980s. Duxford was never preserved as an RAF Base, but adopted as a museum’s store. There has to be a degree of compromise in achieving the objectives of a historic site with a modern museum job and an active, complex airfield.
If you want the atmosphere of an RAF Base, you can have it – there are a number either preserved as memorials / museums, or in current RAF use, or derelict. Take your pick. You’ll note how few offer the full airfield experience, and none the volume of flying vintage aviation that Duxford has. Should you be really passionate about the atmosphere of a pre1950s RAF base, you could even buy one. The airfield part of RAF Bicester was available for purchase and as an un-modefied, historic, pre-expansion period airfield is of more value than the developed (even pre-1969) Duxford.
Comparison with the Shuttleworth Collection at Old Warden is unfair to both places. The Shuttleworth Collection is an airworthy collection of aircraft (and roadworthy vehicles) at a grass airfield. None of the aircraft are larger than twin engined, and they try to avoid holding any un-airworthy aircraft. The IWM do not operate any aircraft, their brief is static preservation, and they have numerous aircraft with four engines and a large collection of boats and tanks. We are lucky that the two venues compliment each other, and co-operate as well as they do (though it could be better on occasion). Bigger isn’t just larger, it’s different.
What have the RAF done in terms of preserving a pre-50s RAF base? While the BBMF is an enormous tick in the ‘care about heritage’ box for the service, elsewhere they don’t score so well. The setting up of the RAF Museum at Hendon in the late 60s was a wonderful achievement, and while the choice of Hendon was a difficult compromise due to its lack of potential to remain active, it’s primacy as an historic London site for the organization made it inevitable. Sensibly, the RAF Museum was set up as an independent organization, not part of the RAF, and this has overall been to their benefit. The surrounding of the historic hangars of the museum by the white frills of the 1970s architects’ dream was as great a sin as is being levelled at the IWM planners today, with the bonus that the 30 year old RAF Museum gets dirty, thus looking bedraggled and it leaks on the archives – a fundamental failure, not just an aesthetic one. Oh, and there’s no flying there. Somewhat moribund then. Not to forget the RAF got rid of Duxford in the 60s.
Let’s for a moment consider trying to preserve or recreate something of what RAF Duxford was. When shall we pick?
A shortlist would perhaps look like:
The W.W.I site
The inter war period
1940-43 – RAF at War.
1943 – 45 – USAAF base
45 – 61 – Postwar RAF
67 – Battle of Britain Film site
69 – to present IWM museum, and venue for airshows, film and TV too long to count.
Most people who wish for something back then look to the 1940 airfield, quite understandably. With some compromise, that could be achieved. But how viable would such a one trick pony museum be? Would the private operators be able to use the site? The rebuilders? Almost all of them are in some degree not in keeping with a 1940s RAF base. Duxford was always, essentially, a fighter base. All large aircraft should leave…
And to pick one period from the history is to fail all the other periods. For any era one can put forward as being ‘the most important’ counter arguments can be put forward for other eras. Ignoring 1918 and 1943-5 in favour of 1940 (for instance) is simply not on.
So let’s be honest; there will be some degree of compromise, something some purists seem to be unable to accept. Perhaps it’s a matter of degree, but I find the fact that you can find items relating to all parts of the last century’s history at Duxford is a good thing. Of course there will be a debate about where the balance should lie, and that’s healthy, but polarized hectoring opinion helps no-one in constructive debate.
Few have argued for the modern history of Duxford, but the memorials to the latter day ‘Blenheim Boys’ and the modern glass memorial to the USAAF are to me as important a part of ‘Duxford’ as the Belfast hangars, or the 1918 chapel.
And that brings us to one crux of one of the arguments. That is: ‘Let’s put back the Belfast Hangar.’ It’s not happened to date, and I wonder why not. There are two factors that seem possible explanations to me. 1. Cost. In the UK, large amounts of wood are not really viable in a building construction. The woodworkers skills do exist, but the clients aren’t prepared to play the price in the UK for wood. Perhaps the money could (and one day may be found) but the second point in combination has stopped the idea so far (I believe). Size. A Belfast hangar (single, not double – there’s the 1918 Chapel in the other space) simply won’t hold a lot of aircraft, and certainly can’t hold many of the larger aircraft. The Sunderland won’t fit (The RAF Museum’s example had to go into a building not unlike the old Superhanger in size and design.) I believe the B-17 only fits without the wingtips, and few of the complete airliners would fit. In short, nothing built at Duxford in the last few years has been as small, and as of such limited use for significant cost. A recladed and re-erected T-2 hangar is a world cheaper in cost, and could be a viable alternative. I would grant that the transplanting of a Belfast type hangar from another location might be a good idea. Let’s hope it happens, but pound per square foot I think it may not be good PR value for money, and it cannot compare with either the AAM or the new AirSpace building or indeed the old Superhangar in volume contained. The cost benefit is a difficult argument without real world comparisons. Thanks to David Burke for the mention of the Bracebridge Heath Belfast hangars. What condition are they in? Whose are they? Learning_Slowly asked how much the move of the Hendon Belfast-trussed Graham White hangar cost – a very good question – anyone?
Questions of competence and ethics. I’m intrigued as to the immediate assumption by some of incompetence or unethical behaviour on the part of the IWM management. Perhaps some who are so quick to condemn, including ideas of ‘laughing all the way to the bank’ might care to detail some allegations? Bearing mind the laws of libel, of course.
You get what you pay for is an old maxim, and the pay for the staff in places like the IWM isn’t great, but it’s hardly awful. The executive level staff might seem handsomely renumerated until you compare them to the private sector. So are you going to go in for fraud in the museum business? In this case I don’t think so. But for those who like to believe Museum staff are bent or incompetent, the stunning arrogance of the British Museum gives ammunition to this argument.
(A complex story, with certain aspects glossed over but these websites give a flavour: http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,1337346,00.html
http://www.geolsoc.org.uk/template.cfm?name=BritMus ). However I think it’s reasonable to ask for some evidence rather assuming failure. Accountability has also been mentioned. As I understand it, there’ll be a board of governors for the Museum, ultimately answerable to the general public – a pressure group would have an effect, ill informed venom from individuals will not. Questions can be asked that must be answered under the new freedom of information laws. Would anyone who has made such criticisms like to ask and present answers here, rather than believing their own worst speculation?
It has been overlooked, I think, that the development of a new exhibition (as the AAM and AirSpace has been) provides a greater impetus to the conservation and restoration work; there has been an acceleration on both occasions in work on aircraft, and the consequent costs of interpretive material and display gear is always much much greater than those outside the business expect. Like many aspects of the museum business it’s expensive because it has to achieve certain qualitative targets without compromise, and it’s a small, arguably monopolistic market place with few tendering for the business.
One of the complaints raised here is the big ugly building concern. If the museum and airfield is going to operate with large aircraft, then it’s going to have buildings bigger than T-2 and Belfast hangar size. What should they look like? Well, if it were a forces base, clearly a big hangar will do. But it’s not, it’s a museum, so it’s going to be a museum building. Aside from the aesthetic question, an airfield hangar and a museum building for aircraft do different things. A compromise between public access and environmental control is the primary balance required. The costs and requirements of heating ventilation and lighting are often a different level to that acceptable in a military hangar. Disabled access and emergency evacuation options also put another difficulty (and cost implication) in the way of the designers. Removal of aircraft is a third level requirement – though the AAM’s glass front was clearly too restrictive. A large building will probably be a high building, which is a major temptation to double stack the artefacts. Not popular, but it gets another 60% of the aircraft under cover for a small additional cost of hanging them. With a significant number outside at Duxford, this is a key concern for any museum which has to preserve its exhibits.
So we move onto the aesthetics. An assumption is made that the ‘peer group’ for IWM Duxford is other airfields. Perhaps, but it is much more in the world of museums than aircraft operation. To see what this looks like, I recommend having a look at http://www.24hourmuseum.co.uk/ and search for the trail called ‘Sculptured Structures’. You might like some or hate them all, but they are developing a modern range of architectural answers to modern problems. A society that has no cutting edge in its arts and architecture is moribund. Whatever your feelings about the buildings, I think there are a few things worthy of note. The largest new wooden building in Britain is in a heritage environment – and is utterly modern. (And gives some hope to the idea of the ‘new build’ Belfast hangar.) Many are new additions to old environments, and the only ‘aviation’ entry in this list is the American Air Museum. Remember aviation used to be thought of as the cutting edge? That le Corbusier regarded aviation as mobile modernity? (Awful architect, in my opinion though.) Clearly the aviation museum business in the UK has some way to go before it’s cutting edge.
Incidentally, I wonder if anyone can advance a piece of modern architecture that is loved at first sight that has stood the test of time? Both the Eiffel Tower and Sydney Opera House were panned when built, but both are symbols of their respective nations, never mind just the cites they are in today.
Clearly there are issues, with the American Air Museum. As a piece of architecture, I quite like it. As a way of displaying aircraft it has several flaws, but the B-29, B-52 and numerous other aircraft are under cover. I’d say it’s too clever by half, as perhaps is the architect, but it is only by venturing we can learn. And the IWM have learned from some mistakes made in the AAM and are taking those lessons on board for the AirSpace project. I’d certainly ask for a refund on the fact that the grass isn’t adhering to the sides.
Kev35 asked for comparisons with the Tower of London and Stonehenge. Stonehenge is an ancient monument, not a museum with an active airfield attached, and a look at the issues with tourist traffic and the A303 will show that English Heritage are facing serious problems managing this world heritage site. The Tower is in London, so there’s quite a few ‘space age monstrosities’ near the site – the ‘Gherkin’ occurs for one. Incidentally, what point in the Tower’s history is the one we should take it back to – it has been under continual development as well.
Quite rightly, several people wondered at the apparent lack of clear vision for the future of Duxford; I presume this is in the matter of aesthetics of the buildings – a point I agree with – the mismatch between the three new buildings is quite remarkable. On the other hand looking to a sustainable future for the continuation of ALL the aspects of the museum and the airfield I think a good plan is evident – a western runway extension is highly desirable, but currently inadvisable with the current NIMBY pressure. Watch this space?
What of the idea of peer group of airfields or aviation museums? Well there are some, but many are outside the UK. New developments at the Steven F. Udvar-Hazy Center (http://www.nasm.si.edu/museum/udvarhazy/) at the National Air & Space Museum is a massive building, and alongside the Evergreen building (http://www.sprucegoose.org/). shows what can be done in the USA – costs for these buildings, though significantly bigger than Airspace in both cases, can give some idea of the proportional costs and issues faced – anyone care to comment from a position of knowledge? Oh, and neither are exactly airshow venues of the status of Duxford. Closer to home is the re-invention of the ‘Aviodome’ at Schiphol in Holland into the ‘Aviodrome’ at Lelystad (http://www.aviodrome.nl/english/). For those not familiar with the site – on recovered land, at an existing airport, a T-2 hangar with a massive new building as the main exhibition space has been built. But the really amazing thing is that the Schiphol terminal building, bombed to destruction by the Luftwaffe in May 1940 has been recreated in every detail with newly made bricks to the original specification. It’s aiming to be a major aviation venue, and it’s an impressive start.
I would like to thank those who have discussed and argued about Duxford with passion and reason, with the result, and as I hope here as well, that we can learn more about this magnificent museum venue. If I may borrow a final note from someone much closer to the business than I: “I don’t want to get into an argument on all this, it’ll be circular, it’ll go on too long, we’ll all fall out and we’ll end up not speaking to each other. It’s not meant to offend either, just treat it as food for thought.”
By: Mark V - 2nd September 2005 at 09:58
This has the making of a full Monty Python sketch.
Do you want the five minute argument or the full half hour?
Mark
😀 Very good – the really funny thing is I was being completely serious! 🙂
By: Paul F - 1st September 2005 at 15:48
Another tuppence’ worth…
I first visited Duxford sometime in the mid-70’s during a annual Summer holiday – not long after IWM started moving in (?). At that time there was no Superhangar (soon to become Airspace), No AAM, and No Land Warfare Hall. No Concorde, no Airpeed Ambassador or Avro York, no Skyfame collection
There were a number of the larger aircraft, Victor, Shackleton, Sally B (Ok I know she’s never been an IWM Exhibit, but you know what I mean) parked on the apron, but they were a fair way from the single crowd barrier, adding to the feeling of “indifference”.
As I remember the environment/atmosphere around the hangars was wide open, and very quiet – although IWM and one or two other small restoration groups were there there was no OFMC or Fighter Collection, and no ARCo etc. The static rebuild/repro of Big Beautiful Doll was awaiting shipment to Lambeth.
Even though I was already an “aviation nut”, the whole place felt slightly “dead” – perhaps it was better at weekends, but it was certainly dead mid-week. To the casual visitor it who perhaps did not appreciate the aircraft in themselves I suspect the atmosphere at that time was totally uninspiring and probably boring.
Since then I have visited many times, both on display days and on non-flying days, and the whole atmosphere has changed, each addition (building wise and collection/operator-wise) has added to the life of the place, whether or not I like the look of some of the buildings.
The place now feels “alive”, you can see the restored exhibits, see real live engineers working on real live aircraft that drip oil in the Fighter collection hangar – if you are lucky you may see one of them run-up or even fly. Surely this must catch the attention of the younger visitor and stand a chance of getting them hooked on aviation?
As has been said in earlier posts, the remit of IWM is wider than aviation alone, and even though tanks and boats don’t really do much for me, they do make a refreshing change, and remind me that aviation isn’t the only thing around (expects instant ex-communication from the forum).
So, I prefer Duxford as she is now, a living, breathing airfield, which is a mix of static museum pieces and live flying machines.
As for the newer buildings, hmm.. I’d rather see all the unique or significant exhibits undercover in “out of character” buildings than have one or two expensive “in character buildings” housing only a few exhibits whilst other airframes corrode away out of doors.
If we can get more under cover by “hanging them” then so be it – at least they are being preserved for the future, and could always be lowered and displayed back at ground level at a future date if funds and space ever permit.
Of course, as we move on we learn – I hope the Airspace exhibits are going to be hung (hanged 😀 ) in a manner which does not harm their structural integrity for the future – unlike past hangings (not at Duxford) which may have compromised the integrity of other ‘planes.
As Setter and others have said, some view AAM and the Superhangar as out of character – perhaps IWM should be strongly encouraged to develop and enforce a coherent development plan, which might include advice on the general style of new buildings, perhaps set exclusion zones on some areas of the airfield, so that the very different atmosphere behind the hangar line can be preserved – I too find that the area behind the hangars (to the North of them) feels very much “untouched” and “special” even when there are hordes of airshow go-ers thronging around the south side of them.
As others have said, I think it would be unrealistic to stop and or return the site to any particular fixed point in time – how far back should we go – why stop at the 1940’s? Let’s go back to the era of the Gaunlets and dig up and remove the hard runway :diablo:? Oh, might that mean the end of Legends and other shows as it would mean only grass-friendly aircraft could operate! It might also prevent arrival of further exhibits by air too….. All of which help bring in the punters, and help keep the place viable. A living organism develops or it dies, I know which I’d prefer to see happen at Duxford.
So… Duxford in 2040?
Mistakes may have been made to date in terms of allowing the new buildings to look the way they do, but hopefully IWM will learn from them, and future development may be more “tasteful”? I would like to think 2040 would find a “New phase” of static hangars/display buildings, probably to the West of Land Warfare Hall – yes it will restrict parking on display days, yes it will mean a long walk from one end of the site to the other, but I am sure this can be overcome with a passenger transit system such as the current(?) land-train. Thinks – with the spiraling cost of oil, the spiraling costs of airframe insurance, and ever less helpful EU-Legislation, will we still even be seeing flying displays by vintage aircraft in 2040, display-day car parking may be the least of our worries 😮
Perhaps all the existing hangars to East of AAM (apart from the then 30year old Airspace building which might serve as a good gateway to the whole complex), could be filled with flying examples/collections inc the long awaited Beaufighter restoration, The Luftwaffe collection inc a Me 262, Me 109 and Fw 190, and the 70% complete rebuilt ex-Chinese Stirling :diablo: (Think of a larger form of the current Fighter collection/Arco hangars/buildings of today) and the state of the art IWM restoration suite.
Until funds are limitless (oink, flap, oink, flap…oh look there goes a flying pig…), then over crowding and “hanging” must surely be better than leaving planes outside to rot. In 2040 I would like to think there would be very few exposed airframes on display (except perhaps the newly retired Eurofighter Typhoon F1 and the J35 “Seafire II” FRS3 Prototype 😉 ). No doubt many of the indoor examples will still be hanging on wires, but at least they will be out of the weather.
I too find AAM difficult as a photographer, as the planes are so crammed in, but at least this means my grandchildren stand a reasonable chance of still being able to see reasonably well preserved samples of the Blackbird and the F111 in thirty five years time. I would also like to see plenty of thought given to disabled access, as I will be 80 in 2040, and would like to think my (likely) wheelchair-bound/infirm status would not stop me from getting a good view.
If RAFM Hendon ever has to relocate then I guess its movement to Cosford might be a better bet than to Duxford – if nothing else it might help reduce metrocentricity?
Maybe 2040 will also find a Science Museum enclave at Duxford – with the current Wroughton collection on site?
Not sure my words have actually added anything to JDK’s piece, but thought I’d add them to the pot anyway…generally I think I agree with him, with the provisio that future building development should be better controlled in appearance and location within the site.
Paul F
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 1st September 2005 at 13:58
Aww leave the poor chap alone mate…he’s a pussycat really…. 😮
😀
By: JDK - 1st September 2005 at 13:49
They can also see the kind of Helicopter that Daddy used to hang out of (Wessex) but it is normally overshadowed by Thomas the Tank Engine’s Friend Harold (Whirlwind) parked next to it.
Now THAT’S cool.
Thanks TT – all thoughtful input welcome, and thanks to those who’ve done so so far. I’m most amazed by a shy Moggy though 😉
DHFan – it took me a couple of day’s thought to put together; thoughtful reasoned response welcome.
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 1st September 2005 at 13:38
Well posted thread Young James,
Having a think to digest all you say….
TT
By: wessex boy - 1st September 2005 at 13:33
I take my kids to Duxford Twice a year (5 & 2) they can see where Grandad’s daddy worked before/during the war (Propulsions Tech on 19 Sqn with Bader), the Ex Channel Airways Viscount that Grandad’s Daddy fixed (he was Technical Director of Channel Airways) and that Grandad put Baggage on to pay for his PPL.
They can also see the kind of Helicopter that Daddy used to hang out of (Wessex) but it is normally overshadowed by Thomas the Tank Engine’s Friend Harold (Whirlwind) parked next to it.
They love the diversity of the place, they love being able to touch/go on the planes, and they love seeing people work on them.
They also enjoy the various aircraft movements, small & large that are going on whilst there.
I took them to Old Warden recently, but they are not old enough to appreciate it yet
By: JDK - 1st September 2005 at 13:26
Good point Charley.
But please don’t forget the volunteers at both Hendon and Duxford – at Duxford much of the conservation and restoration work has been done by volunteers, and the highly impressive civil airliner collection at Duxford is primarily a volunteers’ domain (I understand).
By: Charley - 1st September 2005 at 13:20
I like both Duxford and Hendon. However, having visited the Mosquito Museum and East Kirby on quiet afternoons, I found them much more moving and they said more to me about the wartime production of aircraft (Mos Museum) and the flying of those aircraft (Kirby) than either of the bigger museums. As far as I know they have achieved this through private funding, use of unpaid volunteers and much sacrfice by the owners – very impressive.
By: EN830 - 1st September 2005 at 12:18
I’m an architect and so’s my wife. 😉
Release Bwyan
By: Mark12 - 1st September 2005 at 11:24
Not an architect?
I am.
This has the making of a full Monty Python sketch.
Do you want the five minute argument or the full half hour?
Mark
By: Mark V - 1st September 2005 at 11:20
I am no architect but then none of you are either as far as I know………….
I am.
By: JDK - 1st September 2005 at 10:47
The short answer is they need to do both, the financial end being fighting for an adequate budget, ballance it, and justify what they spend their costs on. While it might seem easy compared to other forms f organisation, having years of commercial experience, I was most intreagued by the completely different and tough challanges my museum’s curator faced.
And just a ‘first strike’ if I may. HM Government is as parsimonious at giving out cash as it is quick to take it in tax – all museums face a tough ballancing act, and many of their costs are not within their control, or easily cut by shoping elsewhere for products. Oh, and the staff pay is usually poor.
The driver in Museums is visitor numbers. Comparisons and improvements against last year, growth to justify development and expansion.
By: Seafuryfan - 1st September 2005 at 10:29
Just a random thought when i was lying in bed this morning, but if Duxford and other aviation museums like Cosford do make new controversial structures such as the AAM, Airspace, Cold War exhibition at Duxford e.t.c, won’t this make those aviation museums, and also the whole aviation scene more well known and bring in more visitors, money and the interest to improve the places even more?
An interesting question. I don’t actually know if national assets such as Duxford and Cosford have a balance sheet to calculate if they operate on profit or loss. Do they have to operate to a business plan? I imagine so. From a laymans point of view, I would assume that the state part of the operations (IWM, RAF Museum) are subsided and funded by Government (the RAF Museum is free to enter, so I assume so). So, do they need to ‘bring in money’ as Rlangham suggests, or do they instead need to operate to a required standard, such as the provision of proper storage and display conditions, the provision of catering facilities and toilets etc? Or do they need to do both?
I’m sure that more interest is created by the expansion of such facilities and that this would help draw visitors onto the respective sites. The local area would similarly hopefuly benefit by the increase in visitors to the general area. They may wish, for example, to combine the visit to Cosford with one to nearby historic Ironbridge.
By: Rlangham - 1st September 2005 at 10:00
Just a random thought when i was lying in bed this morning, but if Duxford and other aviation museums like Cosford do make new controversial structures such as the AAM, Airspace, Cold War exhibition at Duxford e.t.c, won’t this make those aviation museums, and also the whole aviation scene more well known and bring in more visitors, money and the interest to improve the places even more?
By: Moggy C - 1st September 2005 at 06:48
This is my first post
Welcome Prune 🙂
Moggy.
Finished with this thread now.
By: JDK - 1st September 2005 at 00:31
Strange – I never used to be particularly bothered by the hanging aircraft in say the Science Museum but the heavy flying trapezes they seem to have used at Duxford seem so un-natural and really jar.
Thanks for a good post, Jeepman. If I may comment – The hanging trapezes in the AAM were one of the ‘mistakes’ made when the building was errected. What a lot of people don’t realise (because we don’t look) that many of the heavyweight brackets have been replaced by much less obtrusive items.
In the briefing on the AirSpace project, a point made by the IWM project staff was that the lessons leaned on how to hang the aircraft well (or not) had been learned and were being taken forward from the AAM project.
The primary objective for the IWM is to get aircraft under cover, to preserve them – a Museum’s often overlooked first duty.
The AAM is lit by daylingth through a huge front window and a crescent of small skylights. If it’s dark outside, it’s dark inside. If it’s bright outside, there is ample light inside. My thought is that the conditions change, so you can get different pictures, which I quite like. I don’t think the AAM is wonderful, but there is an element of hanging a dog after giving it a bad name.
I would submit that a hatful of awards means something! Even if they are “Award for Ugly building to annoy people”. Conterary to some opinion many awards for architecture are intended for utility as well as beauty.
And at least one qualified architect has commented on the previous referred to thread, but was basically ignored by the unqualified. As I suggested, have a look at the buildings taken as an example by the 24hour museum weebsite (see my first post)
Cheers
By: dhfan - 1st September 2005 at 00:28
I’ve been tinkering with this screed for a couple of days now, trying to work out exactly what I want to say, and continually revising it in light of further comments by others.
David Burke said part of what I mean on another thread – don’t try to re-invent the wheel. As always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder and to me, the AAM is an eyesore. I’m sure many others love it. I also expect awards are presented by the same type of people that commission modern buildings, whoever they are.
I can’t even agree it’s good at what it was designed for. Admittedly the B-52 is a massive aircraft and it can’t be expected to sit in solitary splendour but it looks like the plan for the AAM was drawn around an outline of one.
I can’t believe anyone could say you can view the aircraft well. It is so overcrowded around the tail of the B-52 you can hardly see the B-29, in itself another huge aeroplane, which is crammed in sideways behind the B-17. Moggy’s pic shows the F-111 poked in the little space surrounding the nose of the B-52 and as I recall the Phantom’s the other side.
I have no comments about the light, I’ve never noticed anything particularly dark or bright about it so it must be about right.
I’m sure there would be difficulties in maintaining a climate controlled environment in a standard hangar so something special had to be designed. A little less cleverness and a bit more common sense should have made it possible to move exhibits in and out without a bill for £100,000 for removing a complete wall. Something along the lines of large doors springs to mind.
Like many/most people here I shall continue to visit and support Duxford, it doesn’t mean I have to agree with everything they do.
By: EN830 - 31st August 2005 at 23:50
Dx is a great place, personally to me, the aircraft are second to the ghosts of airmen past that wander the airfield. I certainly wouldn’t call any of the airfields/museums a Mecca, I think that would be too narrow minded. Each has a different quality, and a different set of ghosts.
By: Pilot Officer Prune - 31st August 2005 at 23:19
This is my first post as I’m new to the forum, but I’ve spent a good few hours going over the Historic posts.I wish I’d found this sooner as it is brilliant, with the right mix of characters, comedians, nutters etc.Most importantly though is the vast depth of Knowledge on this site.As a frequent visitor to Mecca (Duxford) I hope to meet some of you one day.
By: setter - 31st August 2005 at 23:13
Well it also looks a lot overexposed but we are not advancing this much – I can show equally dark shots – what would it prove. Its just MY opinion and I won’t be changing it – I visited Dux before and I will again – In my opinion it could do a whole lot better but conversly it could do a whole lot worse and at least it’s there – a true National Museum – sadly lacking here in Aus.
Moggy there isn’t much left in this and it isn’t very positive which is what James was seeking I think in his post so whilst not taking my bat and ball I think I won’t bother tit for tating any more. The positives at Dux far outweigh the negatives – I am no architect but then none of you are either as far as I know…………. Time will judge who is right or wrong if that is even important
John P