A Forgotten Man who Saved Britain?

My late dad saw two young men who’d come all the  way from New Zealand to do their bit collide and spin in, both dying, in 1941. Still at OTU, probably hadn’t even seen the enemy yet. 

Not sure the relevance now I’ve written that, but I felt the need to post.

I think it’s highly relevant, they followed others and were willing to fight and giving everything ,timing wasn’t their fault when they arrived ,may they R I P  

My late dad saw two young men who’d come all the  way from New Zealand to do their bit collide and spin in, both dying, in 1941. Still at OTU, probably hadn’t even seen the enemy yet. 

Not sure the relevance now I’ve written that, but I felt the need to post.

I’m disappointed to learn that my AI figure of 135 is lower than should be recorded. 

As you maybe aware I served in the RAF for 25 years (I’ve said so, in a number of posts) – most of it was during Cold War v1.0. During my time I came across a number of Kiwi’s as well as Australian and Canadian pilots and ground crew on exchange postings to the UK. That continues today aviators travel across the globe, to the UK, to help out. Even though in theory, times should be more peaceful now.

I will listen to your Les Munro interviews over the coming weekend.

H

The number of 135 is just those who received the Battle of Britain Clasp, so only members of RAF Fighter Command who flew operationally during the battle. In fact some researchers say now it is 136, and recently Dilip Sakar got ACM Sir Keith Park recognised too for flying operationally during the Battle, so it may be 137 Kiwis with the Clasp now. But they were only a fraction of the number of New Zealand men flying in the defence of Britain at that time.

Interestingly I’d always known that New Zealand declared war on Germany simultaneously with Britain, and had to then wait for a telegram for the other side of the world to confirm that the UK had gone through with it. But only this week I discovered that the New Zealand Prime Minister, Joe Savage, had declared emphatically as far back as September 1938 that should Britain end up going to war, New Zealand would be right beside them, unquestionably. It is quite amazing the attitude at the time. By the time the Battle of Britain was happening, Savage was dead, and his replacement Peter Fraser found himself the New Zealand PM. He turned out to be a very good war leader, which is astounding considering he spent time in prison in WWI for his anti war pacifist leanings.

I think the only Australian squadron in Britain at the time of the battle would have been No. 10 Squadron RAAF with its Sunderlands, in Coastal Command. Most of the Article XV squadrons formed in 1941 or later. No. 10 Squadron was an Aussie squadron that moved to Britain, I think to pick up their Sunderlands from memory and they stayed on there when the war came along, just like The New Zealand Squadron was there to get our new Wellingtons, and they were offered to the British Government in August 1939, and stayed on, being numbered No. 75 (NZ) Squadron RAF in April 1940.

I met Les Munro on a few occasions. And I had the honour to interview him too, which was a real honour. He was a wonderful gentleman, and he was a fascinating man. I also had the privilege to see him fly Bill Reid’s Anson once too. You can listen to the interview I did with Les here:

https://cambridgeairforce.org.nz/WONZShow/2014/07/episode-70-les-munro-…

https://cambridgeairforce.org.nz/WONZShow/2014/07/episode-71-les-munro-…

Indeed, AI tells me there were 135 NZ pilots in the BOB. I hope that is correct!!

I happen to know that free French, Dutch and even USAAF pilots also flew in the BOB. In the case of the latter the USA hadn’t “joined” WWII at that time.

My “relies” served in Bomber Command in various RAAF sqn’s in Lincolnshire. However, I can’t find any record of a RAAF Sqn in the BOB. 

Talking about Bomber Command one Kiwi that sticks in my mind is Flt Lt Les Munro. Les was of course a pilot on the Dams raid. He survived the war, as the last surviving pilot of the raid. I remember, as a school kid, reading up about him. 

H

No need to apologise. I just felt it worth mentioning that it was not just all Brits and Poles in the Battle of Britain, which is often the impression we get. There were far, far more Kiwis flying in the defence of Britain in 1940 than there were Poles, and historians these days also say the Poles over claimed too. The Kiwis probably get forgotten because they were everywhere across Fighter Command and in other Commands, not all in one squadron together like the Poles. Had they been all together, they’d have formed several squadrons and they’d have been very memorable given how many Kiwi aces there were. New Zealand had a bomber squadron at that time, but the first of several NZ fighter squadrons did not form till March 1941.

My apologies Dave,

Of course there were many overseas pilots involved in the BOB. The most successful of which, 301 Sqn, was a polish unit. Many, many other overseas personnel came across to help in our hour of need.

My point, perhaps clumsily put, was that following success in the BOB the UK mainland was not invaded. The words “RAF’s finest hour” is a quote from Sir Winston Churchill that led me to say what I said. The success in WWII, as a whole, was down to the many civilians working in aircraft production factories, munitions production facilities and out working the land etc. When combined with the Armed Forces they make up “the nation” of which I spoke.

I had relatives living in Australia that came to the UK to fly as Lancaster crews from RAF Binbrook and RAF Waddington in my home county of Lincolnshire. So rest assured their service and sacrifice doesn’t go unnoticed by me, every Remembrance Sunday.

You’re obviously well informed on the subject – but I’m not. It isn’t my area of expertise – as I said before. The reason for commenting in the first place was I recognised Viscount Swinton’s name from a school history lesson back in the 1970’s.

H

Thanks chaps.

Yes I have seen numerous newspaper photos and reports showing Germany’s top generals looking over the RAF’s bombers and fighters at various places. RAF Mildenhall was one, where they had the RAF all lined up en masse for the Coronation Review in 1937. And in 1938 they invited them again to look at the new Bristol Blenheims. I have to wonder why this was allowed to happen. Were they telling the Germans a load of propaganda lies?

The Battle of Britain was not just Britain’s victory, it was the Empire’s. There were thousands of Kiwis there in 1940 defending Britain from the invasion. Many Kiwi airmen had already fought in France and at least 20 lost their lives. There were over 1000 New Zealanders serving in the RAF by the time the Battle of Britain was in full swing, and while only 136 of them are recognised with the Battle of Britain Clasp for their service in RAF Fighter Command, many more were active in Bomber Command, Coastal Command, Training Command, and all the other structures of the RAF, right up to of course AVM Sir Keith Park. And then there were Kiwis in the Royal Navy, and a few thousand NZ Army troops who were diverted from their destination in Egypt and sent to the south coast, Kent and Surrey, to stop the invasion because the British Army had lost all their equipment and were knackered. With them were thousands of Aussies also sent there for the same reason. Men came from all over the Empire to stop Britain from being lost. All those thousands of Kiwis were volunteers and they came from the furthest end of the earth to be there. I think it is nice to be proud of their efforts too even if history only remembers the Fighter Command pilots.

Regarding Hugh Dowding being stood down, I know it was a snub but I wonder how much longer he would have been there if that had not happened. He had already retired from the RAF, and was brought in for the emergency of war. But my understanding was his reactivation was always seen as being a temporary one till Britain got back on its feet. They needed him because before retiring he’d set up a lot of the defence systems.

His boss, Chief of Air Staff Marshal of the RAF Sir Cyril Newall was also out of a job soon afterwards, packed off to New Zealand to become our Governor General.

The one that looks the worst was the removal of Keith Park, but he ended up in Malta and helped to save that important island too, and he later again did wonders for the RAF in the Burma campaign. So probably better that he was sent to places that really needed inspirational leadership.

When I started talking about Hugh Dowding I thought I was going off track somewhat… 

However, he, Viscount Swinton, being involved in the decision not to appoint Hugh Dowding to the post of CAS has brought it around in a full circle. He obviously made some good decisions in his career as well as some bad ones. Just like most of us I guess!!

Whilst I remember his name from a history lesson at school in the early 1970’s it isn’t my area of aviation history expertise. I’m more of a Cold War specialist. 

H

He does,  however, appear in the index to Peter Townsend’s “Duel of Eagles”, described at his first appearance as “…the new Air Minister who fired the expansion with his drive and imagination…”, and then as being involved in the non-selection of Dowding as Chief of Air Staff.

Interestingly Swinton appears to go unmentioned in Stephen Bungay’s “The Most Dangerous Enemy”, which is a bit of a surprise as I would have thought he would be just the sort of person Bungay would have cited.

Certainly Churchill was warning of the “condition” of the UK forces in particular in the 1930’s. He saw the illegal build up of the Luftwaffe as a serious cause for concern.

That should be seen alongside senior Luftwaffe officers on visits to a number of RAF stations just before WWII. The latter has seen comment on this forum on a number of occasions over recent months. Not least my mention of the Head of the Luftwaffe, Gen Erhard Milch, being invited to open RAF Odiham in Hampshire during Oct 1937.

The Battle Of Britain was not just the RAF’s finest hour, but the nations. The rapid build up of the RAF over such a short period and then the success in the BOB led to Hitler “pausing” his invasion of the UK mainland. 

As a nation (UK) we are not very good at remembering some of our great leaders and hero’s. The Head of Fighter Command during the BOB, ACM Hugh Dowding, was removed from post immediately after the battle. It was seen his strategy of keeping the fighters on the ground, fully armed and ready to scramble when the Luftwaffe arrived was seen as flawed. Douglas Bader, a man I’m proud to say I’ve met, saw the “big wing” as the way forward. Whilst he was a fighter ace, several times over. As a mere engineer I think his idea was wrong.

Hugh Dowding’s use of technology and standby aircraft is still in use today – in our modern RAF QRA force aircraft.

H

There are lots more articles on his work in the 1930s newspapers, adding more squadrons, aerodromes and aircraft factories.

It looks like Churchill worked closely with Swinton before the was as part of the Imperial Committee of Defence, in Air Defence Research, along with Professor Lindemann, so they probably had similar views of expansion.

From the Auckland Star, 6 March 1937:

AIR ESTIMATES.

GROWING STRENGTH.

Programme For Establishment OF 146 Squadrons.

1750 FIRST-LINE ‘PLANES

United Press Association.—Copyright (Received 10 a.m.) LOXDON, March 5.

The Air Estimates have been published. The total is £82,500,000, of which £26,000,000 will come from the defence loan.

The Air Force on May 1 will comprise 100 squadrons at home, 20 overseas, and 20 in the Fleet air arm.

The personnel will be 4830 officers and 51,000 men. It is aimed to increase the personnel to a total of 70,000, exclusive of those serving in India. Home squadrons will later consist of 1700 aircraft first-line strength.

Six factories to manufacture engines should be completed in a few months. Flying training will be carried out at 13 civil flying schools, and service schools will be increased from four to 11.

It is proposed to create ten special units to operate a balloon barrage in connection with the defence of London.

The civil aviation vote totals £2,315,000, of which £70,000 will be devoted to improvement of ground facilities on Empire routes. Only £5,800,000 of the increase of £31,800,000 in the Air Estimates will have to be met by the taxpayer.

Expansion in Aircraft Outlined.
In a memorandum accompanying the Estimates, the Secretary for Air, Viscount Swinton, states that the present scheme of expansion provides for a metropolitan air force of 124 squadrons, reports a British official wireless message.

Of these, 100 will have been formed by the end of March. During the summer the number will rise to 124 squadrons, including 20 squadrons of the auxiliary Air Force, with an approximate first-line strength of 1500 aircraft.

Provision is also made for increasing the Fleet air arm from 217 to 278 first-line aircraft during the year, in conformity with Admiralty requirements for aircraft-carrier and catapult ships.

Royal Air Force pay is to be increased by £1,770,000 to £8,400,000. The Estimates provide for £18,000,000 to be spent on land and buildings, including construction and equipment of the “shadow” factories. This is an increase of £8,050,000 over the similar provision made in 1936-37, but towards this expenditure £14,000,000 is to be provided by the loan.

Extensions, either permanent or temporary in character, have been carried out at 34 of the 62 aerodromes. Thirteen additional aerodrome sites are now in occupation and, in addition, five civil have been equipped and arc being used for service purposes. Work is in progress on another 20 sites, and further sites will be acquired during the year.

An extract from The Dominion, 19 March 1936:

FAST PRODUCTION
Great Scientists Working On New Designs
London, March 17.
Lord Swinton, Air Minister, opening the debate in the House of Lords on the White Paper on, defence, said that Britain in the next three years aimed at having delivered more machines than had reached the Air Force during the seventeen years since the war. The new machines possessed a range, speed and performance incomparable with those of last year. Some of the greatest scientists in Britain were working wholeheartedly in that connection. There was no doubt regarding Britain’s potential resources and staying power, but they must be available in time. Lord Ponsonby, opposing the adoption of the White Paper, expressed the opinion that Lord Swinton’s speech was terribly reminiscent of pre-war debates. If Britain possessed greater armaments it might make the present situation much darker. The debate was adjourned.

Yes, actually you are right, in the 1930s he was known as Viscount Swinton.

It seems the expansion started in 1936. 

Here are a couple of extracts from The Auckland Star report dated 7 March 1936:

“Details of the Air Estimates show that this year the pay roll of the Royal Air Force is estimated at £6,518,000, compared with the 1935 Estimate, including the supplementary Estimate of £5,002,000. “

And:

“Viscount Swinton, Air Minister directed attention to the fact that the expansion programme necessitated the training of 2500 pilots and 22,000 airmen in less than two years. The success that has so far attended recruiting indicates that the programme, despite the unexampled peace-time scale, will be duly achieved.”

He served in the army, during WWI, and was awarded the MC. 

I remember him being mentioned in a history lesson, at school, relating to the BOB and the RAF build up prior to the start of WWII. However, I don’t remember much about his role in the build up of the RAF during that time in history. I think his contribution may well be forgotten. But lets be honest the nation through out Sir Winston Churchill, in the general election, just after WWII. He is generally regarded as the greatest leader the nation ever had!! 

Off the top of my head he was not made Earl of Swinton until his “retirement” in the mid 1950’s. I believe he passed away in the summer of 1971 or 1972 – which is maybe why he was mentioned in the history lesson, in the first place.

H