A historic date for Europe

The problem is not in your back yard. It’s in mine. Would you be so supportive if it WAS your back yard?

A NIMBY? Not in my backyard you mean? What does this have to do with it? :confused:

“Snapper you think the world is just the UK?”

No. I think the UK is the UK. And the world should let it make its own decisions.

“You think other people don’t have the right to live in a prosperous country as well?”

Of course they have. And they have the right to make it prosperous. I certainly have no right to live in your house because it’s bigger than mine and your fridge holds more beer, do I?

“Hopefully, the economies of the new memberstates will improve rapidly,”

Through subsidies out of taxes taken from previous members? Great. I get to subsidise the immigrants who come here AND there homelands. Tell that to my children who need new shoes and don’t see daddy in the mornings because he has to leave so early, and hardly see him at evenings because he’s back so late.

“and instead of new immigrants going to the UK, some of them might even return to their country of origin.”

Some of them might. Not enough to balance things out though.

“We don’t have a crap health/education system.”

You misinterpret me, sorry – my mistake perhaps. I mean that WE in the UK have a crap health/education system. It really cannot be stretched further as it can’t supply what is required to the population we already have. And I have no intention of being taxed even more for a lower standard of either.

“I really don’t understand you British (not every individual but in general).”

We noticed. Nobody who isn’t British generally does. It’s something called ‘Britishness’. Unforyunately the fools and liars we have in office think they do. Actually, they probably do – that’s why they won’t ask us to choose.

“You are anti-EU, you don’t like immigrants”

Wrong. We are anti BEING IN the EU. We are very tolerant towards immigrants, but are sick of being conned, held to ransom, lied to and ordered around. We also recognise when enough is enough. We are a small country where the cost of housing has gone beserk, building land is running out and are resources can’t cope with the current situation. And we are powerless to stop anything because we are ignored.

“however, you don’t like the only thing that could prevent illegal immigrants from entering “the empire” and that is an ID-card.”

Wouldn’t help at all and you know it. But i’m in favour, and I think that you’ll find that most are.

“You are anti-everything.”

If you say so. You’re a NIMBY, so I won’t take your opinion to heart. It’s not your concern as you are neither British or involved in Britain.

“Johnny Rotten was right.”

He usually is.

“What do you actually want?”

For Europe to open its ears and eyes and listen and see – HOW MANY MORE TIMES DO WE HAVE TO TELL YOU.

BKonner – I’m sure you are a big fan of it, but though you have made a very strong case, you aren’t even remotely involved and can only see what is good for America. You come from a country that is made up of many smaller states, all of which are populated by immigrants or descendants of immigrants bar the ‘Native Americans’. Tell me, how do they feel at being subjugated? How do they feel at the immigration that went on since White America started? I’ll tell you what, open your borders to the new incomers of ours. Let them come to you. And while you’re at it, open YOUR borders. I can’t come and live in America can I? Nor can the ‘wetback’ Mexicans it seems. I wish we had your immigration controls.

ps – Ireland has benefitted greatly at great cost to European members. I see no gain for Britain. In fact I only see loss.

Shaun – I won’t even give you the respect of an answer to your post. The irrelevant pulling of the racism card is too pathetic and offensive to dignify with anything other than the contempt it richly deserves.

Snapper you think the world is just the UK? You think other people don’t have the right to live in a prosperous country as well?

The EU is not perfect, and I can understand people’s fear that it’s growing too fast, because I didn’t like the expansion as well. Not because these countries should not join, but it’s done in an amateuristic way. I agree with Bkonner, however, I don’t think the post 9/11 era in the US is so keen on immigrants as well. But apart from your president, the USA is actually the best example that a multicultural melting pot can still be the world’s leading nation. It may sound strange from someone criticising US-politics often enough, but the US should actually be the example of how Europe should grow.

Hopefully, the economies of the new memberstates will improve rapidly, and instead of new immigrants going to the UK, some of them might even return to their country of origin.

We don’t have a crap health/education system. This however has nothing to do with immigrants, but because taxes in B. are a lot higher compared to the UK. In Scandinavia health care is even better.

I really don’t understand you British (not every individual but in general). You are anti-EU, you don’t like immigrants, however, you don’t like the only thing that could prevent illegal immigrants from entering “the empire” and that is an ID-card. You are anti-everything. Johnny Rotten was right. What do you actually want?

Why do the british brag about people pouring into their country?. You need immigration and remeber that. All those refugees POWER the UK. The NHS, schools and many public services would collapse if it was not for foreign workers. I say people that dont welcome other into their nation are either racist or pure arrogant.

An American’s perspective about the EU

I am a big fan of the European Union. Everywhere it has expanded in Europe it has created wealth. Just look at Ireland, Spain, and Portugal. I see the stability it has brought to the continent. France and Germany have truly become partners. That concept would blow the imagination of people 60 years ago. The EU, I hope, is the future for Europe. I do fear that it is growing too fast, and perhaps should slow down. But the fact is, as I said before, every country that has joined the EU has benefited (incouding the UK).

As an American I believe in immigration. Immigration is what made my country great! It brings in new blood. Look at what it has done for my country. The United States now has over 300 million people. All are immigrants (almost all anyway). Look at the wealth that they have created. The US is great because of immigration. Some bad apples do get in, but most are hard working people who just want the American dream; and they usually get it. I welcome them. They do bring their customs. There certainly are tensions, but eventually they become part of our famous melting pot and become Americans. This is true of every ethnic group that has made it to these shores from New England to Hawaii and Frorida to Alaska.

Europe has problems. Your population is aging. Who is going to pay for your retirement? Most people are not having enough children to support the next generation. The only solution is immigration. If Europe restricts immigration, then there is going to be a crisis in paying benefits through the various state pension plans in Europe. While the US has problems with is social security system, they are minor compared to what Europe faces. The only solution is to encourage people to come to Europe. These people will bring energy and new ideas. These people will make Europe like the United States, a melting pot of various people who seek a dream. This is nothing to be afraid about, this is something to be excited about. And as an American, this is something I know.

“We should all welcome the new members. “

Easy to say from Belgium, where you aren’t about to have a crap health / social / education service swamped by vast numbers of people who want to live the British way of life. Sorry Geforce, but I think it’s yet another bright shining lie from Bliar, and a sad day for Great Britain. Who gives a toss about the size of the trading bloc? America will still have more wealth anyway. We now have a bunch of poor countries with crap economies and NOTHING to offer the EU of yesterday bar a feel-good factor and a lot of horse-**** statistics. I welcome the Maltese, the Poles and the Czechs for personal reasons, but I certainly don’t see what the hell there is that is good about all this. And I wish we weren’t part of it either. Europe is now expanding into non-Europeean areas. Lebensraum anyone?

Shaun – I think Minidoh has a real cncern that is justified. So stop being a naive dog.

Oh stop being an anti-immagrant dog minidoh!.

I welcome them, but I dont welcome them into our country, I welcome them into the EU. If the EU is so good then they shouldnt come over to the UK at all should they. Why? Whats the point if the EU is so brilliant. I welcome them, dont get me wrong, but it just means there are going to be a whole wave of immigrants coming into the UK. And dont believe any government statistics, Blair lied about Romania (he allowed in thousands when he claimed he hadnt).

For me its another boring day trying to find any sports matches that are still taking place – didn’t think it had been that wet. – Nermal

For all those euro enthuziasts it´s a great day. For me, it an historic moments in a still difficult an long process.