A Memorial Too Far?

That’s great news. You can do it. And us lot will help you.

Yes Phil, Nanki was 23 when he was lost – exactly a week befoire Johnny and Babe.

Feb. 5 Another morning success by F/O Nankivell, who repeats his custom of running into great odds. This time his companion is F/O Cameron, whose first operational Flight it is since the Battle of Britain, after only 1 hr 55 on Typhoons. (I’m going on a patrol tomorrow, so I’d better get this recognition brushed up before I meet the blighters.” With an Irishman’s luck he meets two different kinds of blighters). Airborne from Manston at 09:23 on Dungeness patrol, they sight 4 Fw.190 bombers approaching Eastbourne, which on sighting the Typhoons immediately turn South and jettison their bombs. One of them however is left 500 yards behind on the turn, and within 4 or 5 minutes Nankivell has caught up and opens fire at 400 yards. A longer burst from 300 yards produces a sizeable flash near the cockpit, and after some evasive corkscrew action, Nanki still firing, E/A begins a slow climbing turn, shedding pieces and dropping its undercarriage. At 1,200 feet it rolls on its back, pilot bales out and aircraft crashes into the sea midway between Hastings and Fecamp. While orbiting and giving a fix, sees what he thinks are the remaining 3 190’s returning. He makes a sudden climbing turn and they pass beneath him, and he sees that these are Me.109’s, with 3 more up-sun. One of these dives down and fires at Cameron from the beam, but he takes effective evasive action, and the 109 pops up into cloud again, and thereafter leaves the Typhoons alone. Cameron’s impression is of 4 streams of cannon fire from the wings. In any case two are enough to identify the 109 as a ‘G’, not ‘F’. The action is a good illustration of the enemy’s current practice of supplying rear cover for his raiders. Nanki on landing is so flippant about his success that he has been in the Intell Office 10 minutes before its inmates take him seriously.
Enemy casualties: 1 Fw.190

That was his second. Joined 609 21st October 1942.

Feb. 7 With more Typhoons available than of late, and the weather being conducive, 609 starts Rhubarbs again in a big way, F/O Raw putting up a record by bagging no less then 5 engines and a barge. Taking off at 11:51 with Sgt Leslie, coast is crossed at Bray Dunes in cloud at 2000 / 2500 feet, and pilots separate. Raw then attacks as follows: 1). Solitary engine between Furnes and Dixmude: strikes on cockpit and tender, engine stopped, driver believed killed, much steam. 2). Goods train approaching Dixmude from E: one attack stops it, and engine blows up with black smoke, flames and debris (Cat A – totally Destroyed). Some tracer here. 3). Goods train between Dixmude and Thourout: strikes and steam, train stops. Raw pulls up suddenly on seeing telegraph wires, bangs head on roof, hits wires. 4). Goods train between Thourout and Roulers, already stopped and letting off steam, perhaps as a precaution: strikes and steam from side. 5). Goods train West of Dixmude: strikes, stopped with clouds of steam. 6). Single barge near lock on Canal de Loo: strikes and wisps of smoke. He also started to attack another train just E. of Dixmude, but had to take evasive action from grey Flak puffs and tracer. Sgt Leslie attacks 6 tracks being loaded at a station N. of Roulers, seeing strikes on one. At Roulers yards, after 2 dummy runs, he attacks 8-9 covered trucks from 30 feet Pulling up violently to avoid a chimney, he hits some telegraph wires presumably, as some are found in his radiator on landing. After seeing thick white smoke pouring from all the trucks, Leslie recrosses coast at 8,000 feet.
Enemy Casualties: 1 Loco Cat A (F/O Raw)
4 Locos. (Cat B) “
1 Barge Cat III “
8-9 trucks fired (Sgt Leslie)
Our ” Nil.
The second Rhubarb, taking off at 1406, though it sees almost as good a performance by F/O Baldwin, also sees the loss of F/O Nankivell, who fails to return. Landfall is made as usual at Bray Dunes, in cloud at 3,000 feet, and pilots separate. Baldwin proceeds South of Bergues, then East over Poperinghe and along the canal to Dixmude. Just South of there he hears Nanki call, “I am behind you,” and sees him 1000 yards behind. He is not seen or heard from again. Baldwin then dives from 3000 to 400 feet to attack a string of 4 barges, concentrating his fire on the leading, power-operated vessel. There is a terrific explosion from the boiler, and strikes are also seen on the other barges. After that he finds 3 engines in a marshalling yard at probably Thourout or Roulers. 2 of these are shunting, and both are stopped with much steam. Proceeding NW, he attacks a small engine pulling 2 or 3 trucks, seeing several strikes. Finding the weather too clear at Bray Dunes, he continues to NW of Dunkirk. On the shore are a number of camouflaged gun positions, and some soldiers run to man them. Baldwin attacks, and several fall to the ground. Nankivell intended to attack a transformer station to the South, but it is not believed he went there, as weather seen to be on the deck in the area.
Enemy Casualties: 1 Power Barge Cat II (F/O Baldwin)
3 Barges Cat III “
3 Locos Cat 3 “
Gun post and soldiers shot up “
Our ” 1 Typhoon Cat E, F/O Nankivell Missing.
F/O Nankivell, 609’s first casualty on offensive Ops by Typhoons, stood in the very front line of pilots, past and present. Keen, a very experienced aviator, highly intelligent, with a personality of great char, he was the type that would inevitably be an asset to any organisation lucky enough to possess him. Formerly a F/Lieut in Training Command, he was nearly due for promotion to Flight Commander. Other event for the day is the summoning of S/Ldr Beamont to Hornchurch by the Under Sec. of State for Air, Capt Balfour, who expresses a desire ‘to see the CO of the Typhoon Squadron at Manston. Arrived, the CI is duly congratulated on that Squadrons successes, and at the instigation of G/C Adnam puts on a nice aerobatic display, which is observed to continue as a sort of follow-through before he lands at base. He is then firmly ushered to Sick Quarters by the MO, and there put to bed for several days, much to his annoyance. Standing patrols for the day total 7, all in the morning.

Phil, if you want to do a memorial for him here in the UK, I’ll help. I think he deserves one.

That’s Sound’s great mate

I am in with all the rest of the lad’s too 😉 , It just has to be done 😡 .

Everyone who has died in all the world’s war’s has right to be remembered, regardless of how it happened 😡 .

Don’t for get F/O Peter James Nankivell Snapper :rolleyes: ,
He shot down a Fw-190 and killed it’s pilot on Friday, and was shot down and killed himself by a Fw-190 on the Sunday two day’s latter!!!! 😮 .

How old was the dude again snapper, 23 I think was it not, I have a print out here somewhere of where his is buried Belgium.

He too did not see the one that got him too I guess :rolleyes: .

And in the same respect, all these year’s after the event’s, I hope someone remember’s the Fw-190 pilot as well 😉 .

Both he and Peter paid the ultimate price for their loyalty’s to respective country’s 🙂 .

Cheer’s all far and wide 😀 , Tally :dev2: Ho! :dev2: Ho! Phil :diablo: .

(My computer nearly suffered a melt down, trying to look at the East Kirby pic’s, and I had to shut down, Sorry to the guy’s who have answered the quiz, but I must crash right now, but will be back on the morrow, the M.S. has really wiped me right out again :o, so it’s :dev2: ” Gut Nacht “)

UPDATE

I spoke to the owner of Eastburn Grange Farm, yesterday. He has agreed to having a memorial to the crew of LW172 on his land. After reading the many messages of support on this messageboard, I decided to contact a civilian instructor with my old ATC squadron and he also agreed it would be a good idea. The next step is to get squadron (Driffield ATC) approval and then the agreements of the next of kin. I will keep all concerned posted.

Just a thought. Did they firmly establish whether the pilot even got the message to land elsewhere? Perhaps his radio was shot up or damaged? Maybe he never got the message? Though I guess there would have been ground signals too, but maybe they didn’t see them till the last minute?

I don’t get it – you said the entire crew were killed. What surviving members?

Surviving members of the squadron (not crew) sorry for not making myself clearer.

Philip,

We have only to look at the record books of an OTU to understand how many lives were lost due to Pilot error. All too many times we read in records pilot misjudged ground height or pilot failed to maintain radio contact for weather report. We must remember that many of these crews were forced into the situation of war and that it was only with high spirits and split second descisions that some of them survived the war.

Unfortunately for whatever reason this pilot made a bad decision perhaps due to unknown causes perhaps he thought they would never make the divert or whatever. In this case we must remeber them for all the succesful missions they did fly in and return and of the service they eventually gave their lives for.

Have you approached:-

A) the local ATC to see what they think. Present them with all the known facts and then let them decide with as much conviction as you did all those years ago.

B) the local council. See what they think same as above.

can you really live with the fact that you would like to raise a memorial to a brave crew but because of one mans thoughts you didnt go ahead.

If everyone had listened to the minority during the war I quite believe we would be speaking German by now. So go for it Philip and do it for all the crews lost and missing. They deserve to be remembered.

?

How do you mark the events of a single moment in history – one single incident – one of many that happened 60 years ago?

You just did- I’m sure those of us that read this fourm will know remember these men along with all the others we read about and have known personally over the years.

As far as the memorial is concerned. – “Build it and we come to will honour them”
Best of luck. And keep us posted.
Many thanks for the story- I will remember tonight-
Neil Medcalf

Build the mamorial to commemorate their heroisom for what they did before
the accident, because you don’t get a DFC plus a DFM for nothing.
Phil.

So the pilot made a mistake, It’s human to make a mistake, sadly aviation ones are often very unforgiving.
I agree with B130 above and also remember, they volunteered in the first place. An act of courage in itself that many here wouldn’t be capable of.

Put the memorial up.

Andy

I agree that a memorial should be put in place and I am sure that the local ATC squadron would be happy to assist; as you rightly point out, the latest generation should be aware of the sacrifices made 60 years ago on their behalf. The only question I have is whether there are still any members of the deceaseds’ families in the area and if so, should they be approached in the first instance to avoid any possible offence?

Build the mamorial to commemorate their heroisom for what they did before
the accident, because you don’t get a DFC plus a DFM for nothing.
Phil.

In 2002 we raised a memorial to Sqn Ldr Robert Woodward and W/O Don McPhail two Whirlwind pilots lost off of the South Coast of Jersey, during my research I was told on several occasions that the local authorities had warned off previous attempts at placing a memorial to these two airmen, because there had been local fishermen in the area at the time, who had not gone to the aid of Woodward who was seen to make a controlled landing.

My point is, we ignored the authorities and went ahead with placing a memorial plaque. Today the families of these brave souls have a reference point where they can come and be with their lost relatives.

My advice is to ignore the negativity and go ahead with the memorial, I sure Snapper will back me up on this when I say that you won’t regret it.

Build the memorial.

IF the pilot did make a mistake it cannot blot out the bravery he and the rest of his crew had shown.
The continuing lack of a campaign medal for the crews of Bomber Command is a disgrace – so lets erect memorials to any of them, as many as possible.

Roger Smith.

Build a memorial man!

it should be done. The guys deserve one, mistake or no.

I think theres usually mistakes involved when people die tragically young. especially in warfare.

Jay

Philip,

Bol*ocks to the historian!

Do what you feel is right.

I’ve had a similar issue when researching the SKipper “an” the Kids B-17 crash on the Isle of Arran in Scotland.

Just because one of the reasons for that flight was a whisky run to Prestwick people have turned round to me and said things along the lines of “well, it serves the silly bug*ers right. Flying in such bad weather just to get booze”.

Well, as John Nichol wrote in his most recent book “Tail End Charlies” when he used my research and concluded his thoughts on SKipper’s whisky run, “the waste of it all could hardly be laid barer” – he was refering to the loss of all eleven of Skipper’s crew who were, after all, still young men. They were mostly a rookie crew training aboard their new charge.

What I’m trying to say, perhaps not too well 😮 , is that just because of one person’s mistake, we shouldn’t judge the rest of the crew. And after all, sitting here today, who are we to say that “your” pilot didn’t have a very good reason for “going around again”. Also, we all make mistakes – “to err is to be human” – just some mistakes lead to more tragic consequences than others, as in this case.

Go for it mate!

Regards

Graham

Inappropriate to remember 7 men who were killed on active service?

Johnny Wiseman and Babe Haddon were killed because they didn’t look in the right direction – or perhaps their formation was the wrong one to employ (certainly another pilot up at the time thinks so). Francois de Spirlet was killed because he got a puncture.

Raise a memorial. These men deserve it and it is appropriate.

And it’s possible that Kenneth Wastell died because he borrowed one of His Majesty’s aeroplanes to blatantly flout KR’s by dropping a ground crew Sergeant off at the pub.

It didn’t make him (or Johnny, or Babe, or Francois) any less dead.

I’m in full agreement with Snapper and Kev – raise a memorial.

I think it is wholely appropriate that a memorial be erected, and the ATC should be involved so they can learn that people made mistakes in war too. And that mistakes can be tragic, if you disregard orders or advice, but they should learn that those fleeting seconds of decision that caused the situation should not detract from 20 or 30 or more years of life that each individual had acheived. No doubt this was not a new crew, I’m sure they’d already proven their worth to their country and Empire many times, and the crew’s final act should not be used to wipe all that went before off the slate.

Sidestep those who were not keen and approach it through someone else if you can, but definately do it if you feel strongly enough about creating the memorial.

Whether the memorial comes to fruition or not, you have educated a few of us here right now about these men and the very fact that you have done the research and perpetuated their memory here means they are not forgotten. Your work is very admirable.

Inappropriate to remember 7 men who were killed on active service?

Johnny Wiseman and Babe Haddon were killed because they didn’t look in the right direction – or perhaps their formation was the wrong one to employ (certainly another pilot up at the time thinks so). Francois de Spirlet was killed because he got a puncture.

Raise a memorial. These men deserve it and it is appropriate.

Inappropriate to whom?

The Memorial is to the whole crew, so they should be denied a fitting tribute because their pilot made a mistake?

It could be argued that Bill Reid made a mistake continuing after the first time the aircraft was hit. He continued and two of his crew were killed, as well as the wounds received by himself in the second attack. His reward for making the mistake of continuing was the Victoria Cross. Two of the crew received a small patch of earth, seven feet long and two foot across. No other member of the crew took part in the decision to continue after the first attack. Bill Reid’s VC was well deserved, the point I am clumsily trying to make is that it could certainly have been considered a mistake to continue.

Phillip.

Please reconsider. If the aircraft had made it down safely no more would have been said. It was sixty years ago. The crew deserve recognition of their efforts, as do all those who served with Bomber Command, this pilot included.

Should you wish to try and arrange some kind of Memorial to the crew of LW172, then I will help in any way I can.

Kind Regards,

kev35