A really odd RAF Chipmunk

the same effect is on the u/c curved fairings,in the `sunlight`….

I did notice that a bit later! Must be lack of sunlight this year making me forget how reflections work lol 🙂

Sycamore:

In the cruise it should be trimmed/rigged with zero rudder input – high power/low speed lots of left rudder reducing as the speed increases, power off at high speed little input with increasing right rudder as the speed decreases.

MM:

Thanks for the “I can’t see yellow bands either” input, I spent a lot of time looking and ended up wondering if it was just me going blind. They should be there! While non Training Command Chipmunks acquired some odd schemes (e.g. WZ870) and indeed lost their yellow bands(e.g. WK616), it seems unusual indeed for RAFC aircraft.

MM,in the cruise a bit of left rudder to keep it balanced,as the same effect is on the u/c curved fairings,in the `sunlight`….

Mothminor:
Turning to The Sky is Ours – I concede my theory about the RAFC band only appearing on Chipmunks after around 1961 is clearly wrong . The markings are obviously in transition when this film was taken – incidentally nowhere in the credits could I see a date. I’ve pored over this film for hours; the quality and degree of colour varies, but it almost seems that there’s a lack of yellow trainer bands! Does WK556/”DF” seen at 10:34 have any bands at all? Again, when WP868/”JM” , now sporting the blue fuselage band, banks away from the camera at around 12:00 I’m struggling to see yellow wing bands. I can’t be definite given the quality of the images, but what do you think?

Hi Rod,
I can’t see yellow bands at all either. Certainly not on “DF” or “JM”. Agreed though the colour quality doesn’t help in places. There is no date in the credits – the Pathe site lists it as 1955 but in the National Archive website it is 1954 – 56. The Swift WK207 at the end of the film was only in service 1954 to mid- 1958 so it was definitely between those dates!

Re. the rudder being a trick of the light I am inclined to agree as I’ve just tried converting to B&W some photos of Chipmunks and it can make the rudder look a different colour.
Don’t want to post an example myself as the ones I tried were off the internet and I’d rather avoid upsetting anyone!

One of the Meteor pilots has replied that he bets it is Cambridge UAS. No record of that on the movement card it seems, but that doesn’t mean there could not have been an “unofficial loan” – happened a lot!

My recollection is that the Cranwell ‘Ring of Confidence’ was taken from the dark blue of Oxford and the light blue of Cambridge. With the association of Duxford with Cambridge and the UAS one could image that any blue decoration would be applied in Cambridge blue.

It has been confirmed off board that WK616 appeared at the 1957 Battle of Britain Air Day at Duxford with the upper area in front of the cockpit painted light blue and with no nose spinner.

DGH:

You may well be correct in that decking of the rear fuselage is “a trick of the light” but I’m still sure that the upper and forward cowling have been repainted in a light colour – the upper cowling conforms exactly with where the black anti-dazzle panel was when the aircraft left the factory, (hopefully) supporting my “re-paint” theory. Maybe WZ879 displays a later, much more elegant, form of the same marking. I really like your “Cambridge Blue” conjecture – this has a nice symmetry to it.

Mothminor:

Thank you so very much for those two links; what lovely evocative films!

Turning to The Sky is Ours – I concede my theory about the RAFC band only appearing on Chipmunks after around 1961 is clearly wrong . The markings are obviously in transition when this film was taken – incidentally nowhere in the credits could I see a date. I’ve pored over this film for hours; the quality and degree of colour varies, but it almost seems that there’s a lack of yellow trainer bands! Does WK556/”DF” seen at 10:34 have any bands at all? Again, when WP868/”JM” , now sporting the blue fuselage band, banks away from the camera at around 12:00 I’m struggling to see yellow wing bands. I can’t be definite given the quality of the images, but what do you think?

Turning to the Oxford UAS film, these are so obviously brand-new Chipmunks. The provision of blind-flying screen mountings in the front cockpit and that mind-bogglingly immaculate engine bay (at 1:41) support the 1950 date. I believe they are all in the ex-factory standard scheme (overall silver with yellow bands) – the different coloured rudder is a trick of the light (a small amount of left rudder deflection as the power is applied, perhaps?)

I.garey:

This photo can’t have been taken any earlier than 1959, which is when the trainer bands were replaced by painted DayGlo panels (as seen on your lovely photo).

Thanks Laurence. Like the photo 🙂

The Chipmunks in the video don’t have any horizontal stripes. They appear to be all silver with a coloured band and rudder much as in the OP’s first post but black on top of the nose. On second look the tail colour may actually be different to the band! It’s all very confusing!!

[ATTACH=CONFIG]239902[/ATTACH]

I have a feeling that an Anson based at Duxford had blue band around the tail but my logbook only record WL170 Meteor with ‘blue markings’

Mothminor: I don’t know if OUAS Chipmunks carried yellow bands plus the Oxford dark blue horizontal stripe in the early days, but when I was a member (1961-3) we had day-glo plus the Oxford blue stripe. WK638 and WZ860 illustrated. [ATTACH=CONFIG]239901[/ATTACH]

Don’t want to confuse matters further but what colour bands did Oxford UAS have? The Chipmunks at the start of this video seem to have band colour same as rudder. Later on they only have bands.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klIUw1KzBGo

I will ask a couple of Meteor pilots I know who were based at Duxford at the time and see if they can throw any light on the colour scheme.

However I’ve since had pointed out that this scheme existed much earlier; there are photos of a RAFC BP Balliol back in 1955 wearing these bands.

There’s footage of both Balliols and Chipmunks with blue bands in the 1955 film The Sky Is Ours shot at Cranwell –

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/the-sky-is-ours/query/chipmunk

The more I look at the picture of WK616, the more I think its just a trick of the light (generally), if you look at many of the other black and white pictures in DCW’s collection taken about the same time you will see that the light refracts very differently from the fabric covered surfaces (rudder), metal surfaces and the moulded surfaces (nose cone). If you look at the picture you will notice that it is high in contrast with the black levels heavily raised (the hangars in the background are almost solid black), this would also increase the contrast, depth and overall appearance of the curved areas of the fuselage making them seem darker than they truly are. Of course all this actually just adds to the question of the area in-front of the cockpit, which should really stand out if it was its normal black!

So to sum-up my thoughts, I think everything is silver except the area in front of the cockpit – which should be black, but isn’t, but then it could be silver also – confused yet??

I refer back to my post 2 above. Does anyone know if other units than RAFC used blue bands?

Re the date they were introduced, I recorded a Varsity with blue bands in 1958, while at the Cottesmore Battle of Britain display 17.9.1960 Vampire T11 XE954 “11”. Jet Provost XM458 “20” and Chipmunk WB562 all had blue bands.

I would suggest ‘Cambridge Blue’ given Duxfords very close proximity. It also a very light blue and could easily be mistaken for RAFC blue.

I’m not convinced about that shot of WK616, certainly the way the shading seems to slowly disappear towards the tail makes me think its more of a result of developing or some form of shadow.

Hi Steve:

I wasn’t intending for my response to be of the “I’m right/you’re wrong” category, merely wondering if you had any knowledge of a connection between WZ870 and the RAFC. I have come up with a very vague connection. Now I had previously posted that the Cranwell pale blue/trimmed dark blue band didn’t appear on the Chipmunk until the advent of the overall silver/DayGlo strips scheme, i.e around 1961, thus totally ruling this out. However I’ve since had pointed out that this scheme existed much earlier; there are photos of a RAFC BP Balliol back in 1955 wearing these bands. Perhaps the observer who noted WZ879 in “Cranwell T-bands” really meant that the colour was the same as the RAFC trim?

And now, to muddy the waters further, a very good source has come up with this photo:

WK616 was with the Duxford Station Flight from 29.8.1954 to 14.7.1958, i.e. overlapping WZ870’s stay there. Note the absence of the yellow Training Bands, and that the entire fuselage upper decking, nose cowl and just possibly the rudder appear to be in a light colour. I’m uncertain about the rudder; it could well be silver, but the tone has changed because of the angle at which it’s displaced. Grasping at straws I know, but is it just possible that the pale blue (if indeed that’s the colour) was some form of unofficial “Duxford colour”?)

Based on how it was reported at the time which was clearly incorrect – Duxford Station Flight it is then.

Steve:

The Chipmunk was indeed for RAF College Cranwell

Based on what please? This is what I have on WZ870 (no mention of the RAFC):

C/N C1-0901 DHBf791 awaiting collection from DH’s Broughton Chester factory 15/6/1953
Allotted to 9 MU Cosford 18/6/1953
Allotted to Turnhouse SF 8/9/1953
Allotted to Acklington SF 9/7/1957
Allotted to Ouston SF 25/9/1957
Allotted to Duxford SF 17/10/1957
Allotted to West Raynham Communications Flight 28/1/1959
Allotted to Duxford SF 3/9/1959
W/O 1/11/1959 -hit sodium light after swinging on take off from Duxford and ended tipped upon nose in a ploughed field. Initially Cat4 but re-categorised Cat 5 and soc 4/11/1959. It became a ground instructional machine [7624M] with 5 Air Experience Flight.

Thank you too for identifying the Swift and the Canberra.

Cheers,
Rod.