It was a very cold day on the East Coast of the US this morning, -18 C without considering the wind chill. This United 757 had some trouble starting it’s engines with the tailwind and as you see produced quite a lot of smoke in the process. This picture isn’t even of the worst of it. For a few seconds you couldn’t even see the front half or the tug.
The picture isn’t much but I figure it was worth throwing out here for you all to see. 🙂
By: Airline owner - 17th January 2004 at 13:30
Maybe i did not
By: Airline owner - 17th January 2004 at 13:29
WOW….but i could have sworn i have already posted on this thread:confused:
By: EGNM - 17th January 2004 at 13:16
One of the B752s of AMM – oh sorry – FCA had a bit of a smokey start too this morning at LPL – it seems quite common in the cold on the B752 really. The 748s now and again can get some fuel build-up if they have been sitting for a few days leading to a quick dash of flame outta the exhaust which looks interesting to say the least!
Interesting to see how the Americans can cope with a bit of snow and have an effective de-icing procedure – most of the regionals here only have a couple of rigs and even this morning with freezing fog at LPL only one was operating for the majority of the flights. If most airports over here had that amount of snow on the taxiways i doubt much would be moving at all!
By: dartie - 17th January 2004 at 10:06
Excellent pic nothing bets the good ole UA 757 lol! Unless its and AA 757 lol:p:D
By: Whiskey Delta - 17th January 2004 at 06:06
Originally posted by wannabe pilot
My dad was telling me a while ago, how he had just towed an Easyjet out of the hangar, and a similar thing happened! It had been sitting in the hangar for some while, and the pilots had injected lots of fuel into the engine to get it started. It wouldn’t start, so he carried on injecting more and more fuel (sounds a bit stupid to me, maybe a trainee pilot :confused: ) but then when it did eventually start, there were 40ft flames coming out the back of the engine! It left scorch marks up half of the plane, and the fire brigade had to be called incase anything worse happened. Fortunately, the engines were shut down and nothing else caught alight, but back into the hangar the plane went, I bet Easyjet weren’t very happy!
It’s a fairly common sight with the EMB-145 engines (Allison/RR) to get a flash/bang with the light off. When the fuel is introduced there is occasionally a delay between the fuel entering the engine and when it finally lights off. Usually it happens just long enough for you to announce “No light off on #2” before it finally does ignite. Even up front you can hear the muffled bang of the pool of fuel being burned. As wysisyg stated, this scenerio is more common with a tailwind.
It turns out that we have 2 different powered ignitors on our engines. 1 is a 2 Joule and the other is a 4 Joule (those numbers might be off). During sequencial engine starts the engine control will alternate between ignitor system 1 and 2. Since one of the 2 systems is more powerful than the other you’ll end up getting less “hung” starts on one system than you will with the other. The new procedure is to turn on both ignition systems prior to starting to insure that the more powerful of the 2 systems is going to be used for light off.
In addition to the smokey starts on the EMB-145, I’ve also seen a good 15 foot flame shoot out of the back as a result as well. Very cool looking but not good for the engines.
By: greekdude1 - 17th January 2004 at 04:54
Originally posted by Matthew Murray
bearing in mind..its the PW Parts that make the IAE a weaker engine!!!!!
Rather than post my favourite 2 letter word for an unprecedented 3rd time, I’m going to assume you went on pure speculation here, Matthew.
By: A330Crazy - 17th January 2004 at 01:54
Nice shots WD. 🙂 Top pic is very dramatic.
By: wannabe pilot - 17th January 2004 at 00:03
Originally posted by wysiwyg
In these conditions you really have to watch the EGT guages to make sure you don’t cook the engine during the start.
My dad was telling me a while ago, how he had just towed an Easyjet out of the hangar, and a similar thing happened! It had been sitting in the hangar for some while, and the pilots had injected lots of fuel into the engine to get it started. It wouldn’t start, so he carried on injecting more and more fuel (sounds a bit stupid to me, maybe a trainee pilot :confused: ) but then when it did eventually start, there were 40ft flames coming out the back of the engine! It left scorch marks up half of the plane, and the fire brigade had to be called incase anything worse happened. Fortunately, the engines were shut down and nothing else caught alight, but back into the hangar the plane went, I bet Easyjet weren’t very happy!
By: wysiwyg - 16th January 2004 at 23:28
Give me RR’s over P&W’s any day.
When you start a jet engine you need to spin it up to a certain rotational speed on the starter before introducing the fuel. If you have a strong tailwind and a weak APU you can end up having to accept a lower speed. At a lower speed you do not get the mass flow of air through the engine to match the quantity of fuel being thrown in so the mixture is somewhat rich and can start with a bit of a bang. To exacerbate this even further, on RB211’s, if the outside temp is zero or below you have to use the ‘rich’ setting for engine start which makes the mixture even richer still. In these conditions you really have to watch the EGT guages to make sure you don’t cook the engine during the start.
By: Bmused55 - 16th January 2004 at 22:59
Originally posted by Matthew Murray
Guys and Gals…slap GHE’s under the wing..and both of you will be unhappy lmao…OR how about..slap IAE V2500 with higher thrust on em…then its a mixture of RR/PW and some other parts…..then both of u will be happy..sorta lol…bearing in mind..its the PW Parts that make the IAE a weaker engine!!!!!
HA HA HA HA!
By: Bmused55 - 16th January 2004 at 22:39
Originally posted by greekdude1
NO!!!
then why? Jst curious
80% of all 757’s have RR engines. I think it could even be higher.
Oh yeah! Excellent pics WD, post more please! if you have any
By: EAL_KING - 16th January 2004 at 22:35
KOOL PICS 😀
By: Ren Frew - 16th January 2004 at 22:34
Top pictures WD, they really tell a story. 😀
By: greekdude1 - 16th January 2004 at 21:23
Originally posted by Bmused55
maybe cos they’re better?
NO!!!
By: Bmused55 - 16th January 2004 at 19:42
Originally posted by greekdude1
NO!!!
and why not? maybe cos they’re better? (j/k)
By: greekdude1 - 16th January 2004 at 19:34
Originally posted by Bmused55
Should hang a pair of RR’s under those wing
NO!!!
By: T5 - 16th January 2004 at 18:19
Excellent photos! 🙂
By: Whiskey Delta - 16th January 2004 at 18:12
Now that I’m back home it’s a heat wave at -8C. 🙂
Thanks to lake effect snow we’ve been under constant assault from snow. De-icing is once again back in effect.
By: wannabe pilot - 16th January 2004 at 17:43
Excellent photo WD! -18C:eek: I thought Britain was cold!
By: skycruiser - 16th January 2004 at 17:07
WD,
You always seem to produce great pictures…Keep it up.
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January 16, 2004 at 2:45 am