A W Siskin, time for a reconstruction?

Hi Martin

The rumour of a Siskin fuselage in a Canadian museum, came from a chap who lives in Canada, he contacted me for Bristol F2b info, & we got chatting about other aircraft types we were interested in, the Siskin was one of the many types discussed, I told him of the wings in the RAF museum, & said that a rebuild was very unlikely as there were so few drawings or original parts known about, he then told me of a fuselage that had been found which was supposed to be from a Siskin, unfortunately he did not say which museum it was in, I have also heard/read the same rumour elsewhere, but can’t recall where.

IF the rumour is true, then there is hope that one day we will see a complete Siskin.

Cheer’s.

Bob. T

There are also rumours of a fuselage in a Canadian museum

Hi Bob,

I wonder if you can provide more information on the rumours you mention. Also how if they are in a museum has the rumour has never been confirmed or disproved.

Regards

Nice as it would be to see a Siskin in the air, I just wonder how long it would be before pilot of same would be displaying a ‘Siskin nose’ for all to see!

Well from my uneducated point of view, to be able to see what a Siskin actually looks like and be able to get a good idea of size etc, and to represent the type in a collection would be great. Its internal make up would be irrelevant to me in this regard.
I do obviously undertstand that a properly reconstructed aircraft, as in the Wallace and Flycatcher etc, would be far better but there are nice replicas such as the very accurate appearing, and superbly engineered, Defiant and Balliol projects which do not use an original type construction as I undertsand it.

At the risk of going off topic, if you’re going to do it, why not do it properly?

To answer my own question, it is usually down to cost.

I’m in a rather dangerous place here. Although I have aided various people in their endeavours, I personally have never recreated or restored an aircraft and it would be very rude of me to belittle other people’s hard work.

I’ll put it like this. Unless you use materials as close to the original as you can get and replicate the techniques used, you can usually tell.

Having said that, if you want to recreate a Siskin out of bits of tube and bed sheets…good on you…go for it. Ignore know-it-alls like myself who will grumble about this bit or that bit being ‘not quite right’ when we’ve never tried to recreate anything. Besides we quite enjoy grumbling about such things.

Anne

First find your Jaguars, I think sadly they are a bit thin on the ground.

John

Well from my uneducated point of view, to be able to see what a Siskin actually looks like and be able to get a good idea of size etc, and to represent the type in a collection would be great. Its internal make up would be irrelevant to me in this regard.
I do obviously undertstand that a properly reconstructed aircraft, as in the Wallace and Flycatcher etc, would be far better but there are nice replicas such as the very accurate appearing, and superbly engineered, Defiant and Balliol projects which do not use an original type construction as I undertsand it.

In replica terms, would you really have to build it up the way it was originaly?

If you didn’t, what’s the point?

Anne

Awww, how dare you, I think the Siskin was a thing of beauty!

In replica terms, would you really have to build it up the way it was originaly?

Unless you really like, or want to see, a Siskin of course!

Why would you want to have an ugly metal monstrosity when you can have a beautiful wooden work of art to hang your Jaguar off of?

Anne

A fairly accurate reproduction/rebuild may well be possible, but would require the co-operation of several people & museums who hold parts & drawings etc.

I believe that the wings belonging to the RAF museum are all upper wings.
There were supposed to be the remains of some “believed to be” Siskin wings, in the roof of a barn “thread on this forum”, does any one know if they are still there ?.
There are also rumours of a fuselage in a Canadian museum, & no doubts other parts & drawings etc in various collections & private hands.

Probably the best way to achieve an accurate rebuild/reproduction, would be to build 4 or 5 aircraft, one “a rebuild for want of a better word” would contain most of the surviving parts etc, the rest would be reproductions which might have a few original fittings. This could only be achieved if all the surviving original parts & drawings etc could be got together in one place, hence the need for co-operation from those with the parts etc, & from those who would like a repro Siskin “static or airworthy” for themselves, they would also need quite a bit of spare cash, as to pay for a company to restore/build them would not be cheap, though the cost of each one would be a lot less than if only one was being built “now all I have to do is win the lottery lol”.

I hope it happens, it would be bloody fantastic to see one in the air :D.

Bob. T

Better off trying to recreate a Gloster Grebe.

Unless you really like, or want to see, a Siskin of course!

The Siskin is actually quite a complicated airframe. Not welded but bolted and riveted together with some of the most convoluted joints you’ll ever see on an aircraft. Rigging it must have been a nightmare.

The lack of drawings and original parts to copy is another problem. Although the RAF Museum have three mainplanes they don’t have a matching set. If memory serves, they have three wings, two starboard for a Siskin III and a port for a IIIA. And before you ask, there are quite a few differences between a III and a IIIA wing.

Better off trying to recreate a Gloster Grebe.

Anne

Cees–

As a Canuck, this idea’s dear to me…the Siskin IIIA having been the first fighter type flown by the infant RCAF in the twenties.

A couple years ago I tried to talk a friend of mine in the States into considering recreating the look and “feel” of a Siskin, using the basic core airframe structure of a Grumman/Schweizer AgCat as a basis. (That idea stemmed from my unexpectedly finding a disassembled AgCat in an open storage yard some time back; its basic dimensions and proportions were surprisingly Siskin-like, except for the sesquiplane wing cellule of course.)

Better still would be a limited run of faithful replicas of the type. Static display examples would be desired by at least two of Canada’s major museums; flyers would appeal to several Canadian collectors (and to my friend in the States too). The appeal would doubtless be even stronger in the UK, though there the Siskin competes for historians’ and collectors’ attentions with such ravishing-looking items as Hawker’s Fury…

S.

Mark you have just jogged my memory. A couple of years ago a man my father work’s with claimed that he had some Siskin parts stored in his garage. I will make some enquiries this week and see what I can uncover.

There was a chap my Father used to know quite well who had been collecting AWA Siskin drawings with an eye to a reconstruction of one some years ago. He showed me what he had collected up to that point, which were mainly general 3 views and some installation drawings, most were from the daughter of Herbert Woodhams (AWA’s Chairman and Managing Director until 1960). Apparently her son wanted to build a model of the Siskin and the company supplied the drawings to her !
I’ve not had any contact with him in over 10 years, and have often wondered whats happened to them.

I would love to see a Siskin, to me it epitomises its era in the RAF.
I must admit that I thought that there was project to recreate the aircraft mentioned years ago.

Like Martin – a Coventry Kid – I’d dearly love to see a replica Siskin.

The RAFMuseum reportedly has three Siskin wings (one on loan to/on display at Midland Air Museum) acquired about 1970 but which are they?? Are they all the same or three different? – does anyone know? The one at MAM is an upper (can’t remember which side) and, of course, the lower planes were a lot smaller (as it was a sesquiplane)

As always getting plans (and as AA says cash) would be the big stumbling block.

Roger Smith.

Only question is – who’s going to pay for it!

A brilliant idea Cees.

Been Coventry born and bred I would offer any support I could to a project to recreate one.

Cees,

I’ve been thinking about that as well – although all my own time is currently spent restoing the Jeep – again.

The Siskin III onwards had a welded steel fuselage didn’t it – which makes things easier – particularly for a static display airframe and presumably there must be the odd (?) Jaguar around. A set of original wings already around would help – but does the full set exist?

I guess the RAFM has one or two airframes in front in the queue but it’s the sort of thing that Skysport would excel in