About Time !!

Crikey. I thought this thread was dead and buried…………….:D Obviously not.
Jim.
Lincoln .7

Twisting my words to support your argument won’t work.

I don’t believe I “twisted” your words. I’m just holding you to your comments with your quotes.

Please, come right out and tell us that you don’t have a clue about the subject – like the rest of us.

True. And here we are, speculating our b*tts off. Fits well with parts of the general culture in this forum, wouldn’t you agree? 🙂

Good idea – but there are billions of mouths to feed: where are you going to get all those wild animals from? In this day and age taking individual animals from the wild feeds a minuscule few comparatively, so there has to be farming, cultivating animals for food. But research – not from the Japanese – shows that whales and dolphins are aware of what is happening, they can communicate and feel terror and stress when being hunted, the survivors carry the trauma for a long time afterwards.

Farming is of course necessary. I just think it’s a bit weird to see some people be strongly opposed to hunting, but not the regular food industry. I wonder if it can be a symptom of losing touch with nature somehow.

It’ll be interesting to see what happens if whales start developing opposing thumbs.

You would say that, but then you are not an elk. Tell us how much fun it is when they have the opportunity to shoot back…

The current order of nature is what it is. My view on hunting in general should be known by now.

It is estimated that there are little over 100,000 Minke whales left – apparently a good number, when compared to other whales, but we don’t know if they have been able to keep up their numbers when you extract those killed by whalers, etc.

http://iwc.int/estimate

governments might have an interest in not feeding their people whale meat containing very high levels of mercury… But no.

Or yes. Given specific advice, i.e. for pregnant women. IIRC, I’ve eaten no more than 5-8 meals of minke meat over the last 11 years. Limits due to contamination apply to a range of other products. But yes, mercury pollution seems to be a serious issue.

what is the difference between whalers and men stalking around forests shooting gorillas or leopards for the meat and fur? Clue: it is easier to deploy and army to watch over gorillas and ignore whales…

Or the species in question have different conservation statuses.

Logic says we need to really know how many there are and just how sustainable – to life!

Yes.

A fitting sauce? Maybe something made from effluent and containing mercury…?

I was thinking of a brown sauce / cream sauce mix or something similar. Can be just excellent with good meat, potatoes and vegetables. Mostly ecological, of course. 🙂

Enjoy the Easter! I’ll try to do my bit. :very_drunk:

oh bu@@er.

Well SNAF, I never thought I would say it, but I agree with what you have posted back to Primate..:D
Jim.
Lincoln .7

I don’t know much about Japan in this case. I should clarify that I’m trying to see this from a European perspective, focusing on whaling in the Atlantic.

Please, come right out and tell us that you don’t have a clue about the subject – like the rest of us.
BUT there is this new invention called, let me get this straight, the inter…something. Handy for detail, facts and figures, that sort of thing.

I’m not familiar with whaling regulations. I don’t think the process of killing animals per se is any more nice than you do. I like fishing and will probably take up gamebird hunting some day, owing mainly to the fact that I enjoy the general nature / hunting experience and getting food straight from the wild. The act of killing in itself does not appeal to me, but I see it as a (brutal) part of life.

Indeed, and someone has to do the killing – but they need to do it in an humane fashion. I believe within hunting there are rules that say you don’t kill a nursing female. You want the animals to still be there for you next season you don’t kill the breeding females, and certainly not the young. Unless you are researching how quickly you can bring that animal to the brink of extinction.

I think hunting wild animals for food is more natural in itself than taking whatever comes out of the abattoirs. Speaking of farm animals – what about their quality of life? Stress levels in the moments before they’re slaughtered? Medication? Meat quality?

Good idea – but there are billions of mouths to feed: where are you going to get all those wild animals from? In this day and age taking individual animals from the wild feeds a minuscule few comparatively, so there has to be farming, cultivating animals for food. But research – not from the Japanese – shows that whales and dolphins are aware of what is happening, they can communicate and feel terror and stress when being hunted, the survivors carry the trauma for a long time afterwards.

Shooting an unknowing elk which has lived a good and healthy life in the wild doesn’t seem that bad to me compared to the abattoir.

You would say that, but then you are not an elk. Tell us how much fun it is when they have the opportunity to shoot back…

You don’t think the various populations are being monitored?

Researchers can count the number of birds in a measured area and claim that there must be – give or take a percentage – X number of that species. You can’t do that in an underwater environment as easily, logistics and all that. It is estimated that there are little over 100,000 Minke whales left – apparently a good number, when compared to other whales, but we don’t know if they have been able to keep up their numbers when you extract those killed by whalers, etc. We know that the calf’s stay with the mother for at least two years, and that they die if their pod gets attacked by whalers and the mother is killed (obviously) or loses her calf in the melee.
We know that, in general, whales are a species in decline due to pollution and hunting but that there is no real interest from those nations that do still hunt whales despite the thought that their governments might have an interest in not feeding their people whale meat containing very high levels of mercury… But no.

Again, I know little about the Japanese activities. Logic tells me they don’t intend to do away with the very foundation of whaling (or hunting or fishing) in general: Always making sure to maintain a strong and sustainable population of whatever species you’re after. I trust that e.g. Norwegian authorities know their stuff regarding minke whales in the Atlantic.

Then research it. Logic and trust doesn’t always enter into it… (mutter, mutter, mercury poisoning, mutter)

Look, I’m quite fond of whales and animals in general. General animal welfare and conservation of wild species means a lot to me. I also believe in the responsible and sustainable harvesting of what nature has to offer. I don’t have a complete oversight, but I’m more worried about some other species (e.g. Amur Leopard, Mountain Gorilla) than the minke whale at the moment. Perhaps the resources being used to try and keep some minke whales from getting killed could benefit more serious conservation efforts elsewhere. I just fail to see the logic here.

??? There are laws; they are not/cannot always observed. There are problems with leopards and gorillas which can involve poachers – what is the difference between whalers and men stalking around forests shooting gorillas or leopards for the meat and fur? Clue: it is easier to deploy and army to watch over gorillas and ignore whales…
Harvesting to me implies industrial methods of farming the animals for slaughter – you cannot maintain whales like that, not in the wild. Logic says we need to really know how many there are and just how sustainable – to life! – they are without taking thousands out and hoping that there are some there next year.

Tip: If you ever get the chance, consider trying some grilled and properly marinated minke meat with a fitting sauce.

A fitting sauce? Maybe something made from effluent and containing mercury…?

He might have been pulling your leg, Linc!;) But I have eaten whale meat as well as reindeer and in the wilds of Turkey, dog and watched goats throats bring cut for Halal preparation. And been served a plate of ortolan – roast lark, probably the most widely eaten bird across much of Europe. Goats’ eyes Linc?

Bizarre tastes for some but humans have gained their protein from animals for thousands of years and I don’t suppose it will change much in the next few generations.

You were doing O.K. Primate……..Until your last line….
Jim
Lincoln .7

Well, don’t ask the Japanese whether the Minke are at sustainable levels since they have been researching for years whilst claiming that very thing since before the moratorium; the only problem from that angle is that they are rather unreliable where their interests are concerned, hence the repeated claim that there are sustainable levels.

I don’t know much about Japan in this case. I should clarify that I’m trying to see this from a European perspective, focusing on whaling in the Atlantic.

Its not ‘disneyfication’ – I can’t think of a cuddly, lovable whale-like personification other than one on Sponge Bob (a whiny teenager-like female who, if I recall rightly, is not very lovable). Maybe you can think of something better?

I was thinking more along the lines of “disneyfication” of animals in general. This might be OT, but I’m not sure it’s wise to culturally condition children that way. At least it’s important to address the facts of nature (and the processed ham on the sandwich), but then again it might not be a big deal for all I know. I wonder if some developmental traits in Western societies such as urbanization and less (?) direct involvement with primary industries can contribute to alienate parts of the population from methods used to kill animals for food. Seeing as how many people enjoy eating animals, I also wonder if this logically shouldn’t set the stage for some types of internal conflicts (psychologically speaking). Assigning different values to different species also comes to mind.

‘Disneyfication’ does not enter into the mind when seeing images of a whale ‘cow’ (female, mother) and its ‘calf’ being hauled aboard a whaling ship; the calf stayed with its mother after she was fatally injured or killed and so was killed by the whalers for…research purposes.

I’m not familiar with whaling regulations. I don’t think the process of killing animals per se is any more nice than you do. I like fishing and will probably take up gamebird hunting some day, owing mainly to the fact that I enjoy the general nature / hunting experience and getting food straight from the wild. The act of killing in itself does not appeal to me, but I see it as a (brutal) part of life.

Cows, sheep, pigs, etc, are all bred to be eaten – it is a fact of life; whales are wild creatures

I think hunting wild animals for food is more natural in itself than taking whatever comes out of the abattoirs. Speaking of farm animals – what about their quality of life? Stress levels in the moments before they’re slaughtered? Medication? Meat quality?

Shooting an unknowing elk which has lived a good and healthy life in the wild doesn’t seem that bad to me compared to the abattoir.

we have no way of knowing if they are on the verge of extinction if we (or rather the Japanese) don’t track them but kill them for research. If, next year, none are found due to over research this year… what do we do?

You don’t think the various populations are being monitored?

Again, I know little about the Japanese activities. Logic tells me they don’t intend to do away with the very foundation of whaling (or hunting or fishing) in general: Always making sure to maintain a strong and sustainable population of whatever species you’re after. I trust that e.g. Norwegian authorities know their stuff regarding minke whales in the Atlantic.

Look, I’m quite fond of whales and animals in general. General animal welfare and conservation of wild species means a lot to me. I also believe in the responsible and sustainable harvesting of what nature has to offer. I don’t have a complete oversight, but I’m more worried about some other species (e.g. Amur Leopard, Mountain Gorilla) than the minke whale at the moment. Perhaps the resources being used to try and keep some minke whales from getting killed could benefit more serious conservation efforts elsewhere. I just fail to see the logic here.

We went out on a Pilot Whale watching trip when we were in Tenerife a few years ago. As you say, a memorable experience.

I also tasted some smoked whale meat in Bergen. Not as nice as the roast reindeer.

I’ve had the pleasure of watching whales when flying – very memorable. I’d even like to try freediving among them.

Tip: If you ever get the chance, consider trying some grilled and properly marinated minke meat with a fitting sauce.

Yes ,why haven’t you–oohh weirdo 🙂

You have just lost your Street Cred Alan, how DARE you eat such things, I bet you will here from SNAF about this……….:o

Was looking back through some of the older, stupid threads and – to quote something which appeared to be almost a catchphrase – it tastes of chicken. Probably.

But it’s not SNAF, I have one as an imaginary pet. (Why does a Do-Do do a DOO-DOO, when dozing?) try saying that quickly after a few pints…….:D

Once again you astound me. Maybe we should ask if any of the others have imaginary pets, just to be on the safe side.

Just keep telling him the Dodo is still extinct, that should get you sorted out properly.

But it’s not SNAF, I have one as an imaginary pet. (Why does a Do-Do do a DOO-DOO, when dozing?) try saying that quickly after a few pints…….:D
Jim.
Lincoln .7

[QUOTE=~Alan~;2127

I also tasted some smoked whale meat in Bergen. Not as nice as the roast reindeer.[/QUOTE]

You have just lost your Street Cred Alan, how DARE you eat such things, I bet you will here from SNAF about this……….:o
Jim.
Lincoln .7

BOO!

How about scared?

Nope, you are right. I am not surprised!:stupid:

Putting animal life on a par with human life

But then you need to start rating which human life, and explaining why a Masai warrior is lower than a Patagonian gaucho who is higher than a German Shepherd.
I have no idea what I am talking about, you will not be surprised to know.

Yes, he states I am beyond redemption.

Just keep telling him the Dodo is still extinct, that should get you sorted out properly.

And neither are a patch on crispy locusts, you were looking forward to in the other thread!!:D

I’ve had the privilege of seeing Hump Backs in South Africa and Pilot Whales in Tenerife, There’s something completely enchanting and mesmerizing about Whales…

We went out on a Pilot Whale watching trip when we were in Tenerife a few years ago. As you say, a memorable experience.

I also tasted some smoked whale meat in Bergen. Not as nice as the roast reindeer.

Well Bob, Capt Ahab got his come uppance, didn’t he?. So what you state, may well be true.
Jim.
Lincoln .7