Accident Report Published on Duxford-based T-33

I disagree, we would have far fewer warbirds around if they had not been rebuilt to fly. These machines were meant to fly, not sit around on the ground forever.
Nothing has ever been pranged just for some airshow, some have been pranged at an airshow but not for an airshow.

I could not agree more, For me its about living history, I am sure a lot of the Airframes that have been used in restorations to fly would simply be left where they were if there was not a demand to see warbirds in their natural enviroment the sky, I honestly do not think we are robbing future generations i think the opposite is probably true, Having these Airframes left rotting in the ground seems a waste to me and does not give me the confidence that future generations will get the oppitunity to see this history.

I think the very fact that we have aircraft such as Spitfires Mustangs and Hurricanes flying regularlly in the UK is a great tool to teach children the history of World War II where as a trip to a museum to see a aircraft gather dust does not have the same impact, and will never let the child feel or see what these aircraft are like.

Anybody who knows me will know that sadly i have witnessed 5 fatal accidents involving warbirds at airshows, But in the years i have gone to airshows i have seen hundreds of successful displays including seeing in 1982 Ray Hanna flying his Spitfire at Biggin Hill, I was 8 and had never seen a real Spitfire before from that day on i have had a intrest in warbirds and have spent a lot of my time researching and reading up on World War II, How many other people have had a similar introduction to history? I am guessing quiet a few.

Mmm, I think that Resmoroh is indulging – rather successfully – in a winding up exercise.

Best wishes
Steve P

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Are there any archeology forums? I want to suggest putting houses on some site or other they have been faffing around with in Colchester.

I wonder if people in States circa late 1940’s thought that people in the
next century would appreciate a Typhoon saving ?

T33 what happens to it?

Steering this back on topic if I may:) What is to become of the cockpit section? Will it be scrapped or will it be used as a hands on exhibit once it is made safe?

Thanks for all the comments. They are much as expected. However, someone, somewhere, and at some time, has to look through the other end of the telescope. What might be “good stuff” today might not be seen as “good stuff” in the future. “We”, having dug up a Roman Chariot, do not use that artefact for experimental tests. “We” build a replica, and do the tests with that. (And as an aside, “rock scratching” is just as hard a problem as restoring a Lightning QRA Shed, etc, etc).
I’m sorry if I have caused consternation amongst the Warbird fraternity, but the NOW is not important, the FUTURE is.
If any of you want to progress this argument further, then I would suggest that you send me PMs. There is clearly a difference of opinion as to which way this should go.
You have allowed me my shout – for which I thank you. T’is only fair that you should have your shout – unless, of course – you feel that whatever aeronautical archaeological remains (airworthy or not) should be hammered into the ground (and I use my words advisedly!) regardless of the interests of generations to come!
Je reste ma valise.
Yrs Aye
Resmoroh

Resmoroh,

Despite the benefits derived fron your Degree Course, your ‘arguement’ is full of inconsistencies.

You state the need to preserve these aviation relics, yet promote the idea of flying Beverlys, of which there is, as you no doubt know, just a single survivor.

Yet you remain troubled by the continued operation of Spits, of which there are maybe fifty airworthy at present. Many of these later restorations are pretty close to your notion of reproductions anyway, and indeed some have been produced with no pretence to being original airframes.

If you apply some sort of cost-benefit analysis, I would argue that the money and jobs and pure enjoyment that warbird operations bring to so many of us, is vastly more significant than the arcane study of some future generations. Given the vast number of airframes and relics in existence, they will not be short of raw material.

You ask what the ‘future generations will do’ when they find out that some aeroplanes were lost in recreational flying. There IS a chance that they might riot, or trample on our graves. Then again, they might not give a stuff.

In Adobe Acrobat Reader you can always re-scale the page size to show at whatever text size is suitable????? :confused:

YOUR ALIVE!!!:eek: 😮

Blue Max – Possibly a somewhat sweeping statement ! I recall the RJ Nash collection for example rescuing a good number of historic aircraft and not flying many at all . There are a great number of aircraft preserved by people who have recognised their worth when the flying community have given them up as ‘uneconomical’ to repair. A couple of prime examples that spring to mind are the Monospar and Wikko . The forum doesn’t exist to just put aircraft in the air – it exists to further the interests of the broad church of FlyPast readers who have varied interests.

And the Wikko has been restored to fly has it not??? And i for one would love to see the monospar also in the Air, In fact there are many A/c in museums i would prefer to see with air under there wings. I belive this forum exists for those interested in Historic Aircraft, i prefer, for my part to see those where they belong, in the Air. I fear yours maybe a bit of a sweeping statement also, there are many Unique examples out there that are lovingly kept in the air at great expense in time and money by what you call the “Flying Comunity” for all to enjoy, Many more i fear would not exist it it were not for peoples desire to Fly them.

In Adobe Acrobat Reader you can always re-scale the page size to show at whatever text size is suitable????? :confused:

Thanks, I hate Adobe as it doesn’t work for me, some computer glitch I guess!

Blue Max – Possibly a somewhat sweeping statement ! I recall the RJ Nash collection for example rescuing a good number of historic aircraft and not flying many at all . There are a great number of aircraft preserved by people who have recognised their worth when the flying community have given them up as ‘uneconomical’ to repair. A couple of prime examples that spring to mind are the Monospar and Wikko . The forum doesn’t exist to just put aircraft in the air – it exists to further the interests of the broad church of FlyPast readers who have varied interests.

It is annoying when these reports are published and you cannot read one page at a time without scrolling the pages up and down.

In Adobe Acrobat Reader you can always re-scale the page size to show at whatever text size is suitable????? :confused:

Fortunately nobody ever dropped a “pot” whilst cleaning the dust from it, (which it gathered by sitting on a display shelf in a museum); however I do remember several exhibits falling off a forklift, and one run over by quite a large lorry, and then there was the time the river flooded the basement and wrecked everything stored therein (I think you can see my point).

At the risk of enraging and/or alienating ALL the warbirds fraternity, I was taught during my Archaeological degree course that you do not carry out modern experiments with the real archaeological artefacts. You do it with reproductions – in order to prove (or disprove) a point.
What, I might ask, are the aviation archaeologists/historians in 50, or 100 years, from now going to do when they find that these VITAL relics were pranged just for some “Airshow”. Not good enough!
If there is not enough money to build reproductions, then “Tough”. The Rebuilders/Restorers of recovered airframes are to be congratulated for the hard work (and cash) they put into their endeavours – but do not hazard the existing airframes.
Sorry if no more Merlins howling over Dux but you have a duty to the future to preserve the existing – not just to exploit it for the present.
There now, I’ve had my two-pennorth. I’d be surprised if anyone on this Board feels the same – but, we can (for the moment, at least) voice our (my!) concerns without fear or favour!
I would love to see Beverleys, Shacks, Argosys, trolling about over S UK. But it seems to be all about the Figher Breed. Toys For the Boys. Needs to be a smidgen of historical realism. Even the upsidedown pic on Ebay is part of the historical record!!
Respects to all, and their opinons. But you must, thereby, allow me mine!
Rgds
Resmoroh

You may have your opinion sir, and you may voice it , you have however i fear completely missed the point of an Aeroplane and this forum, Aeroplanes are ment to fly!!! Also if peolpe did not own these aeroplanes to fly them, they would not exist at all.
I suggest you go back to digging up old bits of rock and leave us to fly aeroplanes that we have spent much time and money on.

If you fly aeroplanes , sooner or later you’re going to break them. Luckily ( very luckily) both occupants walked away from this one.

Fortunately there are still a fair number of T-33s around.

It’s all a trade-off in perceived values and these change over the years. Shuttleworth now still fly the Tomtit amongst other unique types, although we often decry in retrospect the flying of the “last” Bulldog at Farnborough in ’64.

I disagree, we would have far fewer warbirds around if they had not been rebuilt to fly. These machines were meant to fly, not sit around on the ground forever.
Nothing has ever been pranged just for some airshow, some have been pranged at an airshow but not for an airshow.

Have you posted on the wrong thread?

At the risk of enraging and/or alienating ALL the warbirds fraternity, I was taught during my Archaeological degree course that you do not carry out modern experiments with the real archaeological artefacts. You do it with reproductions – in order to prove (or disprove) a point.
What, I might ask, are the aviation archaeologists/historians in 50, or 100 years, from now going to do when they find that these VITAL relics were pranged just for some “Airshow”. Not good enough!
If there is not enough money to build reproductions, then “Tough”. The Rebuilders/Restorers of recovered airframes are to be congratulated for the hard work (and cash) they put into their endeavours – but do not hazard the existing airframes.
Sorry if no more Merlins howling over Dux but you have a duty to the future to preserve the existing – not just to exploit it for the present.
There now, I’ve had my two-pennorth. I’d be surprised if anyone on this Board feels the same – but, we can (for the moment, at least) voice our (my!) concerns without fear or favour!
I would love to see Beverleys, Shacks, Argosys, trolling about over S UK. But it seems to be all about the Figher Breed. Toys For the Boys. Needs to be a smidgen of historical realism. Even the upsidedown pic on Ebay is part of the historical record!!
Respects to all, and their opinons. But you must, thereby, allow me mine!
Rgds
Resmoroh

It is annoying when these reports are published and you cannot read one page at a time without scrolling the pages up and down.

You could always used the “old fashioned” method of printing it and turning pages of paper with your hands :rolleyes: