Acquisitions & Disposals

As to the Me410 – as the sole survivor there should be no question that it belongs in the place of its construction .

http://airandspace.si.edu/collections/artifact.cfm?object=nasm_A19600329000
https://www.flickr.com/photos/71709766@N00/400080432

Not quite the sole survivor!
I wouldn’t necessarily mind the Me410 going back to Germany, but it had a pretty major role in combatting the British and US strategic bomber campaign – so it has a good deal more relevance than the Ki-100.

D
This does, however, remind me of something sadly lacking in the UK, and that is a dedicated museum for Civil machines – light, aviating for the use of. OW aside, the civil stuff does sit a trifle incongruously within what are in reality, often military collections, such a Hendon. I”ve often mused that it’d be great if OW was extended to include a static section, artefacts et al. At the very least, it’d be nice if the RAFM/IWM made a heap of all the civil stuff, say at Cosford.

East fortune probably has the best collection that I can think of.

The Electra hasn’t flown for a number of years – the father and son of the familiy were killed in the crash of an aerobatic aircraft . As to the story itself – if you don’t show and inform of the contribution it made to the British war effort the public are hardly likely to ever know!

Slightly off topic but I may as well join in – there’s a bit of a civilian thread that runs through NAM’s collection, the list is in here http://www.newarkairmuseum.org/aircraft_list.html albeit the Taylor Monoplane is currently not listed!

These are covered by this part of the collecting policy:

“Aircraft flown privately if they are significant to the development of the type and represent unique examples which otherwise would be destroyed;”

I think that was Tony Bianchi’s ‘Blue Max Museum’.

Wasn’t there a civil aircraft based museum at Wycombe Air Park at one time?

Rob

DB;- I know about Sid’s Electra. So do you….but how many other people..? Pitifully few I’d warrant. Not only that, as far as I’m aware, it’s still airworthy, although I doubt it still has it’s mods. Better as a Shuttleworth a/c, perhaps, or at Duxford…or anyway based in the UK so that it can be displayed flying, rather than collecting dust in Hendon.

Conversely, most enthusiasts will know both of the other machines. Anyway – wasn’t the ‘410 used against our bombers… (I make no claims to be an authority on such matters.)…just what does an a/c have to do to become ‘relevant’…..? I’m sure we aren’t about to be petitioned by Mrs.Merkle over the ‘410. :rolleyes:

This does, however, remind me of something sadly lacking in the UK, and that is a dedicated museum for Civil machines – light, aviating for the use of. OW aside, the civil stuff does sit a trifle incongruously within what are in reality, often military collections, such a Hendon. I”ve often mused that it’d be great if OW was extended to include a static section, artefacts et al. At the very least, it’d be nice if the RAFM/IWM made a heap of all the civil stuff, say at Cosford.

Snoopy- I doubt I would! The days of having our past enemies technology for the sake of it should be really over! The Ki-100 isn’t massively significant in our air war in the Far East -an intact Zero would be far more significant.

As to the Me410 – as the sole survivor there should be no question that it belongs in the place of its construction .

In terms of our ability to fight back at the Nazi’s the first months of the war the Cotton Electra is far more interesting .

…I wonder what other objects that have been accessioned to the RAFM collection are in line for de-acquisitionisation – or should that be unaccessioned!

That’s what I’ll be keeping an eye on in the future! 😉

To be honest the real aim for starting the thread was to make people aware of the webpage, so that they can also keep a look out in the future. With all of the fuss that’s been created I’m beginning to wonder whether I should have bothered.

As for the Venom NF3 – I’m not aware of any approach to loan it back. 🙂

I would argue that the Messerschmitt Me410 could quite happily be sent back to Germany and the Kawasaki Ki100 to Japan and the space freed up used for the likes
of the Cotton Lockheed Electra Junior.

Indeed you could, – but you might be sat in the corner of the bar on your own 🙂

I know it’s pedantry but……..

One of the new ‘buzzwords’ (buzz-phrase) in the museum world is de-acquisition

What a horrible fabricated noun. But even it is not as bad as the following:

‘it was decided at the time to accession these into the collection’

which is taken from the Bentley Priory Fine Art section of the RAFM website, to which TwinOtter23 provided a hyperlink at the outset of this thread. Whilst I accept that the OED identifies accession as a transitive verb, I have no experience of it being used as such and I suspect that its use, as quoted above, is an example of the modern trend indiscriminately to employ nouns as verbs.

I wonder what other objects that have been accessioned to the RAFM collection are in line for de-acquisitionisation – or should that be unaccessioned!

I would argue that the Messerschmitt Me410 could quite happily be sent back to Germany and the Kawasaki Ki100 to Japan and the space freed up used for the likes
of the Cotton Lockheed Electra Junior.

Neptune
Catalina

Pucara

The Neptune and Catalina at least represent ex-RAF types for which there is no genuine RAF equivalent (although from memory there used to be at least one genuine, un-modified ex-RAF P2V5 in America) and the Pucara fits in with the ‘adversary’ types.

The Jungmann, Flying Flea and RF-84 don’t really fit at all. I’d go further and bring the Swift back as well!

In terms of helicopters, it’s interesting that the Skeeter isn’t relevant but the MH-53 is!!

Perhaps they could swap the Skeeter for a proper CFS example XM556 or XM564.

I guess if I was looking at possible disposals/exchanges with the collection swap/loan out the Swiss Venom and get the ex RAF NF3 WX905 (which should not have been disposed of in the first place in my opinion) back from Newark on loan maybe?.
I also think the following (maybe me being controversial) are out of place with the collections policy and perhaps could be used as swap items for future acquisitions
Casa Jungmann
Casa 352 (Ju52)
Flying Flea
Mustang at Cosford
Neptune
Catalina
RF-84 Thunderjet
Swiss Vampire at Stafford
Pucara

Indeed it has a small association -undoubtedly due to the performance of the Auster AOP.6 out there. A Piper L-4 would have far greater relevance in the story of AOP aviation in this country and worldwide.

Regarding the P-51 -I managed to have a very good look at this machine at Halton – it really isn’t needed with the pristine example happily sat at Hendon.

aeronaut -pity you couldn’t persuade the curator to move the Bird Dog on and replace it with a Auster I which really was the start of the AAC !

The Cessna as a type does at least have a relationship to the AAC:

http://www.656squadron.org/galleries/1913%201953-54%20Korea%20KM/images/070%20Red%20Meaton%20-%20the%20Generals%20personal%20pilot.html

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb209/Davef68/cessna2_zps8d695792.jpg

If this is part of a wider examination of the collection, then it may perhaps mean the end for the bitsa P-51.

On the subject of acquisitions (and relevancy) – anyone know what’s happened to the IL-2 and A-20 they were supposed to be getting?

Bruce -difficult one with the RAFM ! If it were to concentrate on core RAF machines the likes of the Bristol 188 and TSR-2 at Cosford to name two would be very hard to justify!

Interesting that they were both built in very small numbers and were both in different senses failures, but are considered iconic in the public eye (apparently). And no, I am not complaining that they are being exhibited.

My mistake, sorry!

Surprising they opted to dispose of the helicopters, which are original and complete (and look in good condition) on the basis of duplication and relevance, but overlooked a plastic Typhoon, Swiss-built Vampire, derelict PT-19 and the Miles Mohawk (how long did that actually spend on display?!)
It’s also a bit of a shame that Hendon or Cosford can’t find a small space for the Proctor-whose significance to the RAF is quite considerable.

From the first line of the document linked: ‘The Royal Air Force Museum has reviewed its current holdings in the Helicopter Collection’. I may have overlooked a rare prototype or two, but I am fairly certain the museum does not hold helicopter-versions of the Typhoon, Vampire, PT-19 or Mohawk.

Surprising they opted to dispose of the helicopters, which are original and complete (and look in good condition) on the basis of duplication and relevance, but overlooked a plastic Typhoon, Swiss-built Vampire, derelict PT-19 and the Miles Mohawk (how long did that actually spend on display?!)
It’s also a bit of a shame that Hendon or Cosford can’t find a small space for the Proctor-whose significance to the RAF is quite considerable.