active torpedo defences

k this is the one active torpedo defence on Indian ships as well as on Russian ships …. from BR

RBU-6000 Rocket Launcher

The RBU-6000 rocket launcher is fitted with 12 radially arranged tubes which contains the RGB-60 depth charge rocket. It is an unguided solid propellant projectile with an impact time fuse, which can be switched to impact or impact-time ignition. The maximum firing range is 6000 meters and maximum target submarine engagement depth is 500 meters. The rocket weighs 110 kg which includes a 25 kg explosive weight.

The fire control system provides all the necessary data on the state of the launchers, mutual position of the host ship & target submarine and generates the firing data. The system transmits the data on the necessary laying angles to the launchers, ensures remote input of burst type & depth to the rockets and the command as to the number of rockets to be fired in a ripple of one, four, eight or twelve firings.

Hi,
Isnt there something about the Prairie Masker system, that makes it vulnerable to wake homers? Cant seem to remember exactly.

Yes but, they have a short range, only about 7,500 yards! Most heavy weight torpedoes have ranges in access of 30,000 yards.

What is the point of giving a rocket powered torpedo long range? At its max range (of 7km) the target would have to be deaf not to hear it coming… the high speed however gives very little time to evade. If used at longer ranges more time to evade would make the weapon less effective. It is a rapier, not a broadsword.

BTW why compare it to heavy weight torpedoes? It weighs less than half what a Russian TT-5 weighs.

RE: active torpedo defences

> plawolf
> are there any current or planned active torpedo defences for modern surface warships?
Yes, in addition to the Russian system, there are mortars that can be fired up to 4,000 yards that creates an interuption in sound path that “can” protect a ship.

The US Navy has several programs to protect its important ships. The first was the usage of the Mk.-46 and now Mk.-50 lightweight torpedoes. The task is to intercept headon the incomming torpedo. If the Mk.-46/50 explode before they get to the torpedo the explosion will damage the sonar. If the explosion occurs after it passes the enemy torpedo it can damage the propellers and break the control wire.
A little over a year ago the University of Pennisula designed an “anti-torpedo torpedo.” It is six inches in diameter and about eight feet long. It can be launched from the tubes for the noise makers or the tube for the MOSS submarine active decoy used by SSBN’s.

> if a torpedo has been fired at a surface warship, what are its options of
> actively evading it?
There are active noise makers that simulate the propellers noises of ships called “AN/SLQ-25 nixie.” The nixie is towed behind the ship by a couple thousand yards or more. The sooner the target being attacked can force the sub launching the torpedo to break the control wires the better the chance of the target evading the torpedo.

> GarryB
> The Shkval torpedo is the current model in a rather long line of rocket powered torpedoes
> They travel at about 200 Knts
Yes but, they have a short range, only about 7,500 yards! Most heavy weight torpedoes have ranges in access of 30,000 yards.

> Ja Worsley
> There is the US Perry/Masker System
The “Prairie Masker” system is a system that blows pressured air (approx. 28-75 psi) into the water through thousands of small holes on the bottom of the hull. By blowing bubbles, the air bubble against the hull absorbs the sound emmitted by the hull. Being flexible, the bubble would absorb the noise but not transfer any energy to the water on the other side. Thus reducing the total amount of noise introduced into the water.
While a nominal pressure is between 75 down to 28 psi, the volumn of air is massive. The air is supplied through a system of small tubes welded to the exterior of the hull. These small holes bored in these tubes emitted an envelope of bubbles around the hull’s exterior greatly lowering hull noise emissions. This system reduces the noise by at least 10%. The decoy system has a 35% chance of fooling military type sonars.
On a frigate like the USS Perry Class the Masker air system discharges through each connection at a rate of 425 squared cubic feet per minute (SCFM) at approximately 12 psig. Perforations in the emitters allow discharge of Masker air from the keel to the water line.
The prairie air tubing to the propeller. At the propeller hub after end, the air enters drilled passages in the hub body. The passages direct the air to the base of each propeller blade. Air reaches each blade through a bushing connection between the blade base and the hub body. Air then flows through an air channel in the blade leading edge and discharges through 302 orifices.
Prairie and Masker come into play only for passive sonar searches. They make the ship sound like a rain storm to the submarine. The sub knows something is making noise but can not identify the noise as any type of a ship. Prairie and Masker systems are effective against active sonar.
Prairie Masker is very effective. Even our submarines have a difficult time locating our CG’s, DDG’s DD’s, and FFG’s when they are operating in condition 2AS (ASW stations) with prairie masker active during exercises. A carrier operating with an effective acoustic deception plan can still be detected at long ranges, but can be mistaken for a different target… i.e. a merchant ship or a smaller combatant. Acoustic deception plans have been used it in exercises very effectively.
A directive came out of NAVSHIPS limiting operation of Prairie Masker system ONLY
at speeds above 15 knots.

Adrian

cool, thanks for all the replys guys!

There is the US Perry/Masker System, the Masker in a thin line of bubbles that is produced around the ships hull this throws the active sonar in the Torp off (apparently the sonar refuses to believe that it’s a ship and thinks instead that it’s a school of fish.

The Perry part is a towed sonar emitter that emits sound waves making the passive sonar in the Torp think this is the ship. It’s usually towed behind the shipat around 500-1500 yards astern. Aussie FFG’s usually put to sea with two of them for practice.

but anyone with a competent mind knows that obviously i’m not talking about the miniaturization challenged Russian weapons

No, you are talking about a trillion dollar paper project that the west can’t decide whether it can afford or not… of course the French want it to have red fins and the Germans want white fins…. 😀

[QUOTE=GarryB]

Another option is the Paket-E/NK, which is basically a self contained anti torpedo torpedo. The system uses the ships sonar to detect and identify incoming torpedoes which is then engaged with this weapon.

A Russian anti torpedo torpedo for sale now… get them before someone realises they are classified… (Sorry couldn’t help myself 😀 ).

of course Garry, of course. You don’t have to understand what i’m saying, but anyone with a competent mind knows that obviously i’m not talking about the miniaturization challenged Russian weapons :rolleyes:

I suggested the idea of a anti-torpedo torpedo on sci.military.naval, and they thought it was an interesting idea. This torpedo would actually go out and destroy incoming torpedos.

[quote][QUOTE=Vortex]

…idea of a anti-torpedo torpedo

This work is classified. Let’s just say, it’s very small.

Another option is the Paket-E/NK, which is basically a self contained anti torpedo torpedo. The system uses the ships sonar to detect and identify incoming torpedoes which is then engaged with this weapon.

A Russian anti torpedo torpedo for sale now… get them before someone realises they are classified… (Sorry couldn’t help myself 😀 ).

[QUOTE=mixtec]…idea of a anti-torpedo torpedo[QUOTE]

This work is classified. Let’s just say, it’s very small.

I heard the russians were coming up with a superfast torpedo that goes the speed of sound (measured in air), that would be something difficult to stop.

The Shkval torpedo is the current model in a rather long line of rocket powered torpedoes that go back to the 50s. They travel at about 200 Knts, but sound travels four times faster underwater than it does above air so it is no where near the speed of sound above or below the surface.

The US has been experiementing with super cavitation rounds for its CIWS for use against everything from mines in shallow water to torpedoes. Not sure where that led to, but from what I can remember they were good down to about 5 metres or something… not bad for 20mm rounds.

The Russian solutions range from the RPK-8 antisubmarine missile system (basically rockets fired from what looks like a WWII hedgehog depth charge thrower that is fully automated) which can engage subs, torpedoes and swimmers with info from the ships sonar and either a depth fuse. ie the ships sonar will detect and track the target ad the rocket will be fused to the appropriate depth and fired at the various target types. A further option for use against subs is a homing gliding depth charge that has a small sensor and homes onto the noise of a sub as it descends.

Another option is the Paket-E/NK, which is basically a self contained anti torpedo torpedo. The system uses the ships sonar to detect and identify incoming torpedoes which is then engaged with this weapon.

Then you have soft kill systems like the Berilly-E which is basically a torpedo that mimics a submarine acoustically and when fired it turns 90 degrees and hopefully the incoming torpedo engages it instead of the real sub.

The Akhilles is the ship launched versions that works in the same way.

Russian anti-torp systems

Hopefully GarryB might jump in here and flesh this out a little bit from one of his sources, but, heres some stuff on the new Russian UDAV-1 anti-torp system:

The UDAV-1 system is designed to use different types of rockets for highly efficient multi-layer defence of surface ships against torpedoes. The system is also capable of engaging submarines and frogmen.

The system comprises:

the KT-153 remotely controlled multi-barrel automated launcher with indirect elevation/traverse stabilisation;

the 111SG depth-charge rockets with HE warhead and impact-time fuse to engage underwater targets;
the 111SZ mine-laying rockets with hydroacoustic proximity fuse for remote mining of a water area to make a barrier for incoming torpedoes;

the 111SO decoy rockets to divert homing torpedoes from the surface ship by creating false acoustic target;

the fire control devices;

the ammunition lading device;

ground support equipment.

The UDAV-1 MLRS operates in conjunction with the ship’s sonar

credit: http://home19.inet.tele.dk/airwing/ships/asw.htm

I suggested the idea of a anti-torpedo torpedo on sci.military.naval, and they thought it was an interesting idea. This torpedo would actually go out and destroy incoming torpedos. I heard the russians were coming up with a superfast torpedo that goes the speed of sound (measured in air), that would be something difficult to stop.

The Russians have made the most effort in this regard wolf. They have a number of rounds for their RBU systems intended to drop accoustic ‘jammers’ and mine-type hardkill rounds in front of an inbound. These are spliced into the ships sonar suite and, if memory serves, have an automatic mode to act as an anti-torpedo CIWS after a fashion.

Historically the NATO navies never expended much effort in this direction as, with our sonar superiority, we always expected to have the first shot or, at least, first contact for evasion. If a torpedo did head inbound then there were always passive decoys that were confidently expected to seduce a Soviet era seeker head.

Now though, with the move to the littoral battlespace, the chances of getting caught out by a sneaky SSN firing, altogether too smart, homing torps are altogether too high for such complacency to be maintained and anti-torpedo hardkill is being studied. The most radical I’ve heard of was a US system, apparently being looked at by NAVSEA, that used a powerful directed ‘water pulse’ to disrupt mines and torpedoes in shallow water from standoff distances. I’ll do some digging and post up whatever I find OK?.