Ok I suppose some of you are sick of this topic but Ive been thinking about it all day.I was wondering when EI replace their A330s what will they pick.Unfortunatley I have no info on the 7E7 so if any body had details let me know.
The 2 main contendors to replace the long haul fleet are replacement A330s or new 777s.The A340 is out of the equation due to limited runway length in Dublin/DUB/EIDW.
The A330-200 carries a maximum of 380 passengers as far as I know that would be in a 1 class config which seems to be where EI are headed at the moment but maybe not on long haul route.
The A330-200 costs $11.90KM to operate.For every KM cover each passenger in a 1 class configuration has to pay $0.031 if the flight is full to break even.
I cant see Aer Lingus operating a route over 8500/9000Km with maybe 1 exception.So lets take San Francisco for instance.To fly this route approxmitley 8500KM of fuel is needed so to break even Aer Lingus would have to charge $266 one way and obviously a little bit more for the profit margin.Also the A330-200 has a range of 11850KM so if they wanted to go further they could.
Now the A330-300 in my opinion would be the best option.On a flight to San francisco with a full load 440 passengers in a one class setup would have to pay $0.021 to break even.So altogether $181.59 to breka even with a full load with more needed for profit and of course waht are the chances of a full load.
Now to the 777-200.
I was surprised by the information I found on this plane.It costs more than the A330-300 to operate and can only carry as many passengers as the A330-300 aswell.So as it costs more to operate and can only carry an equal amount of passengers its going to cost more for passenger to fly on at $0.027 per KM.These figures are at full loads remember so 440 for the 777-200 and A330-300 but as configuration changes the costs change but as they carry equal passengers the variation is bascially 0.So on a flight to San Francisco the 777-200 would require passengers to pay $237.61 to break even with more required for profit.
So it looks as though in a flight between the the A330-300 and 777-200 the Airbus comes out on top but we havnt compared the 7E7.Another thing which goes against the 777 is extra training costs as Aer Lingus already have pilots flying the A330 as well as a medium sized A320/A321 family with change over time very small.
Now before I go one more thing.Aer lingus act as a feeder service to BA from Dublin,Cork and Shannon to BAs long haul routes.What destinations would most people getting off EI flights get onto.Would they be the flights BA oved to terminal 1 as well as Australian flights.
I hope I havnt spoken aload of crap and I really want to hear your opinions.
By: SHAMROCK321 - 4th July 2004 at 20:45
As far as I know Aer Lingus do recives maintence off FLS Im only going on that Ive seen one of their planes over at the hanger.Unfortunatley we cant develop this discussion further because we have no idea about what Aer Lingus want and have planned.i cant really see them buying a super long hauler to do charter like you suggedted.tThe next possible big trek for Irish fans would be the world cup in South Africa and we dont even know if we are going.The A333 is cabable of doing that.I suppose well just have to watch and see.
By: EAL_KING - 4th July 2004 at 15:39
brilliant livery sandy 🙂
By: Bmused55 - 4th July 2004 at 15:38
Absolutely fabulous Sandy, d’ya mind if I show that to someone else ?
No problem, go ahead 🙂
By: LBARULES - 4th July 2004 at 15:37
Love that 777 in both liveries, great work 🙂
By: Bhoy - 4th July 2004 at 15:21
dunno about LH so much for a distinctly Boeing longhaul fleet, Matthew, considering their longhaul fleet is 747/330/340…
By: MSR777 - 4th July 2004 at 13:34
Back in the mid 90s I worked with and had training from Aer Lingus in Dublin and I always had the impression that the whole enterprise existed to serve tightly defined parameters in relation to where it served and how often. Talking to EI employees at that time I was left with the impression that it was the Irish Govt. which defined those parameters. The long haul routes seem to be tailored purely along the lines of the location of the greater number of Irish ex-pats and this does not seem to have changed. There is even a U.S Immigration unit staffed by their own people in the international terminal at DUB which covers all of Aer Lingus long haul routes! I am not for one minute criticising Aer Lingus, throughout my time on the training I was always impressed by the professionalism, loyalty and good humour of their staff and the quality of training was second to none but there seemed no great ambition on the part of the people I got to know to see Aer Lingus become a worldwide carrier, but maybe now this has changed, maybe it has to. Personally, as others have said, I see EI sticking with Airbus but if those parameters change then all bets could be off.
By: RIPConcorde - 4th July 2004 at 13:28
The 777 looks amazingly good in the EI livery! 🙂
By: Ren Frew - 4th July 2004 at 13:25
777 rendition as requested. Including my concept livery 🙂
Absolutely fabulous Sandy, d’ya mind if I show that to someone else ?
By: Bmused55 - 4th July 2004 at 13:18
Love that EI livery of yours Sandy. Better than what they’ve got at the moment. 🙂
why thank you 😀
By: Duesseldwarf - 4th July 2004 at 13:16
Love that EI livery of yours Sandy. Better than what they’ve got at the moment. 🙂
By: Bmused55 - 4th July 2004 at 12:46
777 rendition as requested. Including my concept livery 🙂
By: Ren Frew - 4th July 2004 at 12:12
Now thats a long distance airlines but still has to relevance to Aer Lingus.Wy would they want to fly that far.They dont fly half that far at the moment.
They might want to do the occasional extra long haul, I’m thinking of the special charters taking Irish football fans to South Korea during the world cup in 2002 for example?
By: Bmused55 - 4th July 2004 at 12:06
Now thats a long distance airlines but still has to relevance to Aer Lingus.Wy would they want to fly that far.They dont fly half that far at the moment.
Of course, currently tey don’t
But as we are talking about the future here, anything is possible.
When considering the different aircrafts… the 777-200LR will seem VERY tempting.
By: SHAMROCK321 - 4th July 2004 at 11:57
Now thats a long distance airlines but still has to relevance to Aer Lingus.Wy would they want to fly that far.They dont fly half that far at the moment.
By: Ren Frew - 4th July 2004 at 11:56
How about of one of your templates Sandy showing a 777 in Aer Lingus colours ? 😀
By: Bmused55 - 4th July 2004 at 11:48
food for thought:
Boeing recently completed half the design work for its 777-200LR (Longer Range) passenger airplane, which will fly farther than any commercial jetliner. Engineers provided the design work to Boeing factories and suppliers so they can build parts, assemblies, and tools for the world’s longest-range passenger airplane, which will enter service in 2006.
Carrying 301 passengers in a three-class configuration, the 777-200LR can fly 9,280 nautical miles (17,170 kilometers).
By: Bmused55 - 4th July 2004 at 11:46
Just ot let you know a new A330-300 roughly costs $146450000 and a new 777-200 roughly costs $150490000 and the less economic A330-200 costs $128775000 so although the A332 is less economical its cheaper to buy and when ordering a large number of aircraft it could just maybe go towards the A330-200 but again we have no idea about Aer Lingus plans ro expand its long haul network.Will they just keep operating to the States or will the go eastwards and southwards.
3 of the main men in Aer Lingus have asked Irish transport minister Seamus Brennan about them buying Aer Lingus themselves.
FYI
The list prices mean squat.
By: SHAMROCK321 - 4th July 2004 at 11:38
Just ot let you know a new A330-300 roughly costs $146450000 and a new 777-200 roughly costs $150490000 and the less economic A330-200 costs $128775000 so although the A332 is less economical its cheaper to buy and when ordering a large number of aircraft it could just maybe go towards the A330-200 but again we have no idea about Aer Lingus plans ro expand its long haul network.Will they just keep operating to the States or will the go eastwards and southwards.
3 of the main men in Aer Lingus have asked Irish transport minister Seamus Brennan about them buying Aer Lingus themselves.
By: Bmused55 - 4th July 2004 at 11:30
I’m not doubting the actual individual aircraft economics per se. More the costs of having different types and crew ratings by having a mixed fleet. I’m sure the 7E7 will be very efficient in many ways. I just wonder if Boeing will think along the lines of a common cockpit system in future, one of Airbus’s major selling points at the moment.
I’m sure they will.
The rumour is that the 7E7 flightdeck will in many ways be identical to the 777.
By: Ren Frew - 4th July 2004 at 10:22
To touch on your comment of “Boeing offering more powerful planes with less attractive economics”
I don’t think that is entirely true. The Projected figures for the 7E7 show it will be a very economical aircraft. And who knows what the next lot of aircraft from Boeing will have for economics.
I’m not doubting the actual individual aircraft economics per se. More the costs of having different types and crew ratings by having a mixed fleet. I’m sure the 7E7 will be very efficient in many ways. I just wonder if Boeing will think along the lines of a common cockpit system in future, one of Airbus’s major selling points at the moment.
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July 3, 2004 at 10:25 pm