with the Principe de Asturias being sought after by Angola,
we might have the possibility of the first carrier by a modern African country.
what are the potential air wing and fleet for this?
what roles would Angola need it for (protecting oil rigs?)
Its rumored to be named the Alberto Rey Rivas Class, after the ace that shot down an SAAF Mirage in the 80s
By: kev 99 - 28th January 2014 at 17:08
Snowballs in hell.
By: Jinan - 28th January 2014 at 16:24
Again, all this is irrelevant as it is beyond Angola’s naval capacity
The Navy numbers about 2,500 and operates seven small patrol craft and barges.
The Angolan Navy (MGA) has been neglected and ignored as a military arm mainly due to the guerrilla struggle against the Portuguese and the nature of the civil war. From the early 1990s to the present the Angolan Navy has shrunk from around 4,200 personnel to around 1,000, resulting in the loss of skills and expertise needed to maintain equipment.
In order to protect Angola’s 1 600 km long coastline, the Angolan Navy is undergoing modernisation but is still lacking in many ways. Portugal has been providing training through its Technical Military Cooperation (CTM) programme. The Navy is requesting procurement of a frigate, three corvettes, three offshore patrol vessel and additional fast patrol boats.
Most of the craft detailed are from the 1980s or earlier, but the navy acquired new boats from Spain and France in the 1990s. Germany will deliver Fast Attack Craft for border protection from 2011.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Armed_Forces#Angolan_Navy_.28Marinha_de_Guerra.29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Navy
Fast Attack Craft
4: Mandume class (Bazan Cormoran type, refurbished in 2009. The four boats are the Mandume, Polar, Atlantico and Golfinho)
Patrol boats
3: Patrulheiro
5: ARESA PVC-170
2: Namacurra class (operated by the Navy and Fisheries Ministry)
Fisheries patrol Ngola Kiluange and Nzinga Mbandi delivered from Damen Shipyards in September and October 2012, followed by a 28 metre FRV 2810 (Pensador). [These patrol boats are operated by Navy personnel under the Ministry of Agriculture, Rural Development and Fisheries]
Landing craft 1-3: LDM-400 (often unserviceable)
By: Tempest414 - 27th January 2014 at 13:20
if they are really in the market for a Carrier then maybe they should make a offer on HMS Illustrious last refitted in 2011 at a cost of 40 million pounds. However a reconfigured Makassar class would be a better place to start at 38 million dollars new
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By: Arabella-Cox - 27th January 2014 at 08:33
An elderly gas turbine powered carrier that missed its most recent planned refit and in serious need of a SLEP if it was to continue in service would be a highly foolish purchase by Angola. It would be a money pit as a helicopter carrier assuming that it is unlikely that they would be buying surplus Harriers to operate off her.
If Angola feels a need for an improved at sea helicopter carrying capability there are plenty of affordable diesel powered solutions available.
Heck, they could just get a 20,000 ton displacement container ship and do an Arapaho style conversion on it. They could adjust capabilities as needed that way. As it is, Angola is reported to be looking for a frigate, some corvettes and OPVs along with some more patrol boats.
But as Y-20 Bacon asked, what would the need a dedicated helicopter carrier for? Well anti-piracy, fisheries and resource protection (oil rigs could be grouped into that) along with SAR and an additional boost to the amphibious capability they already have with the three Russian Polnocny LSTs they have on strength. But if that’s the case, in terms of cost and all my suggestion of an Arapaho style conversion, considering the length of coastline and the size of their exclusive economic zone, would be likely doing a lot of replenishment work along with air support if and when they get on line at a better price long term than the PdA in her current state.
By: swerve - 26th January 2014 at 23:21
Indeed. They might cost more to buy, but they wouldn’t need an expensive major refit before being fit for use, & would be much cheaper & easier to operate. Smaller crews, machinery easier & cheaper to maintain, etc. Navantia would happily build one, as would Fincantieri, DCNS, TKMS, & a Korean yard or two.
By: Fedaykin - 26th January 2014 at 12:03
An elderly gas turbine powered carrier that missed its most recent planned refit and in serious need of a SLEP if it was to continue in service would be a highly foolish purchase by Angola. It would be a money pit as a helicopter carrier assuming that it is unlikely that they would be buying surplus Harriers to operate off her.
If Angola feels a need for an improved at sea helicopter carrying capability there are plenty of affordable diesel powered solutions available.
By: swerve - 26th January 2014 at 10:38
Where was that? I don’t recall it. Can you provide a link to the post?
Stupid idea, of course. It would make very little difference to China, & affect other countries just as much. 62% of Angola’s oil exports are not to China, & Angolan oil is 12 % of Chinese imports.
By: plumberunion - 26th January 2014 at 05:22
several weeks ago, someone on this forum suggested laying mines off Angolan coast to cut off oil flow to China. maybe the Angolans are reading this forum.
By: Bager1968 - 26th January 2014 at 05:15
Not the USMC… not just for political reasons, but because the USMC is keeping its AV-8Bs in service until “up to 2030″… which means removable parts and even airframe components are/will be stripped from the unflyable/life-expired airframes to keep the rest flying (that was the reason behind the USMC buying all 74 GR7/9s and the entire spare parts stock for them from the RAF.
This means that the USMC will replace its F/A-18s with F-35s first, and then its AV-8Bs.
So, no flyable AV-8Bs for a long time, if ever.
By: Jinan - 25th January 2014 at 16:49
what are the potential air wing and fleet for this?
what roles would Angola need it for (protecting oil rigs?)
IF transferred, ….
Keep in mind Spain will for now keep its AV-8B Harriers (12 EAV-8B+ 1 TAV-8B) for use on SPS Juan Carlos I LHD. At least until such time as e.g. F-35B becomes available to Spain. F-35 for Angola? No funding! So, the only option would be ex-USMC AV8Bs (which are old, long in the tooth, worn) or … Angola might acquire remaining SHAR’s from India (same restriction applies)? Expect an all helicopter wing (if a wing at all, she may just deck heli’s from sister services.)
By: Jinan - 25th January 2014 at 16:45
Expanding African navies would be more likely candidates e.g. Algeria, Morocco
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_National_Navy
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Moroccan_Navy
By: Jinan - 25th January 2014 at 16:14
Complement Principe de Asturias: 830 (total); 600 ship crew, 230 air crew
Country Angola
Type Navy
Size 1,000 Personnel
So, PdA alone would require 60% of current navy manpower
As we read on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Navy#Surface_Vessels
In December 2013 it was reported that Angola would be buying a package of old ships from the Spanish Navy. The Príncipe de Asturias is a small (16,000t) Harrier carrier, to be transferred along with the former USS Harlan County (a Newport-class landing ship), the F-32 Diana (a Descubierta-class corvette converted to minesweeper support ship), P-61 Chilreu (lead ship of its class of ocean patrol vessels) and the P-27 Ízaro (an Anaga-class patrol ship)
So, not just the PdA carrier (complement 600 ship crew, excl. flight crew), but also an Newport class LST (Complement: 14 officers, 210 enlisted), a Descubierta class corvette (the Diana was transformed to MCM support ship M-11. Complement: 118), Chilreu OPV (crew 36) and Anage fishery patrol ship (crew 25) > 600+224+118+36+25=973 crew needed to absorb new (additional) ships
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/angola/navy-equipment.htm
Naval Organization
The Angolan fleet consists of seven patrol vessels and four naval aircraft. All of the naval units operate from bases in Luanda, Cabinda, Lobito, Namibe and Soro. The naval aircraft operate from Luanda.
Naval Forces
The Angolan Navy (AN) currently consists of seven patrol vessels:
Four Mandune class patrol boats.
Three Patrulheiro class patrol craft.
http://www.amiinter.com/samples/angola/general.html
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January 25, 2014 at 10:35 am