Airbus continues to complain about Boeings AI win

Erm, no. Just no.

Boeing and Airbus are in full command of Aerodynamics and to suggest one is better than the other is without basis or fact.

Oh really? Please enlighten me.

It has been interesting to read all of your posts on this. Now for my 2 pence worth. Firstly, I think that Airbus complaining is pretty pathetic and doesn’t give me the impression of a world-class manufacturer. Secondly, in the above article it says the ‘French Airbus’. If I am not mistaken, Airbus is a European company and by no-means wholly French.
Also, who can tell what the commercial aviation market will look like in 10 years time? I believe the 787 will be a success (if it meets it projected targets) but I also believe there is a huge market for the A380. India’s population will overtake China’s before long, and with the massive increase in passenger numbers there will not be enough airport capacity unless carriers do use the A380.
Regarding the A350 development, I think people are forgetting that Airbus has just developed a new aircraft, and so may well already have good foundation knowledge of aerodynamics and systems that Boeing are having to develop now.

100% agreed. Amazingly I noticed to that Airbus becomes a French company when there is something to complain about them …. :rolleyes:

Regarding the A350 development, I think people are forgetting that Airbus has just developed a new aircraft, and so may well already have good foundation knowledge of aerodynamics and systems that Boeing are having to develop now.

Erm, no. Just no.

Boeing and Airbus are in full command of Aerodynamics and to suggest one is better than the other is without basis or fact.

The Real matter is, you need money to develop an aircraft. Money Airbus have invested in the A380 right now.

It has been interesting to read all of your posts on this. Now for my 2 pence worth. Firstly, I think that Airbus complaining is pretty pathetic and doesn’t give me the impression of a world-class manufacturer. Secondly, in the above article it says the ‘French Airbus’. If I am not mistaken, Airbus is a European company and by no-means wholly French.
Also, who can tell what the commercial aviation market will look like in 10 years time? I believe the 787 will be a success (if it meets it projected targets) but I also believe there is a huge market for the A380. India’s population will overtake China’s before long, and with the massive increase in passenger numbers there will not be enough airport capacity unless carriers do use the A380.
Regarding the A350 development, I think people are forgetting that Airbus has just developed a new aircraft, and so may well already have good foundation knowledge of aerodynamics and systems that Boeing are having to develop now.

Are you sure the launch aid for Airbus has been cancelled/ scaled down?
Airbus are pushing the UK government for 300million in order to develop the composite wings for the A350 according to the article in the Sunday Times tha mentions EK’s alleged order.

I said it was still in discussion

Patel breaks silence, warns Airbus, Boeing

NEW DELHI: The ministry of civil aviation has finally fired its offensive in the bitter cross-continental duel over Air-India’s decision to dump the French Airbus and pick America’s Boeing for its nearly $7-billion aircraft deal.

After maintaining a stoic silence for more than a week, civil aviation minister Praful Patel on Saturday night issued a stern warning to the two aircraft makers asking them to desist from questioning the aircraft purchase deals of India’s state-run airlines.

“I caution (manufacturers) against any advice on how to run an airlfsine. I hope people present here are listening,” Patel said at a function held in Mumbai on Saturday night. Without naming any manufacturer, he said: “Our carriers are capable of taking decisions on their own.”
Both Airbus and Boeing have been quite vical against the aircraft purchase plans of A-I and IA respectively.

While Boeing had been saying that IA — which had picked Airbus — would be better off with an all Boeing fleet, the Airbus said A-I would be handicapped against global competition with its decision to buy Boeing planes

Are you sure the launch aid for Airbus has been cancelled/ scaled down?
Airbus are pushing the UK government for 300million in order to develop the composite wings for the A350 according to the article in the Sunday Times tha mentions EK’s alleged order.

So then, I guess Boeing could hand back the $6bln in subsidies Japan gave Boeing to design and produce the 787! Airbus has been paying back its subsidies with interest as these were part of the agreements made with various European government.
On the other hand, I did read your post, it’s just that particular segment which remained etched into my mind!

FYI, the agreement struck means no start up aids for aircraft after the agreement was made. The 787 was already a year or so into its official development. The A350 was only just announced (Which was the catalyst for the talks that ended in this agreement. It was very obvious that Airbus was relying on the aid) Its still not clear if this makes the A350 ineligible or not. A matter I beleive is being discussed. If its not allowed to receive start up funds, which is likely to be the outcome, then Airbus will have to rely completely on their own bank account, which is depleated thanks to the A380.

So then, I guess Boeing could hand back the $6bln in subsidies Japan gave Boeing to design and produce the 787! Airbus has been paying back its subsidies with interest as these were part of the agreements made with various European government.
On the other hand, I did read your post, it’s just that particular segment which remained etched into my mind!

I just would like you to explain how Airbus doesn’t have the resources needed to develop an effective counter to the 787! If they have the resources to develop an aircraft like the A380, what makes you think they don’t have the resources to push ahead with the A350. Would you be referring to their finacial state or to the capabilities of Airbus’s design department?

Please. Read my FULL explination. I have already explained this.

A breakdown as you obviously can’t be bothered:

1, agreement for no more launch aid
2, Ongoing a380 program which is over budget (circa €1bn?)

Ah… but who would be the tit and who the tat? :diablo:

That was a little….old. LOL

🙂
I’m not assuming a problem free development of the 787. Its very probably the 787 will have a few program hiccups.
I am saying that the 787 is the leader and the A350 is a poor match as it stands. Airbus do not have the resources to develop an effective one on one 787 competitor.

I’m also saying that the A380 has a while to go before it recoups money and until it does Airbus cannot commit to another full development program. Mainly due to the agreement of no more start up aid.

And as for my footnote if you want to exchange tit for tat, tell me, which manufacturer recently failed to meet its promised performance targets for its then flagship aircraft? 😉

I just would like you to explain how Airbus doesn’t have the resources needed to develop an effective counter to the 787! If they have the resources to develop an aircraft like the A380, what makes you think they don’t have the resources to push ahead with the A350. Would you be referring to their finacial state or to the capabilities of Airbus’s design department?

Ah… but who would be the tit and who the tat? :diablo:

Now where do I start…

nah I can’t even be bothered! 😎

yes, don’t be bothered…. it would just be a tit for tat argument

…the A320 is not as technologically superior to the 737 as you make out…

Now where do I start…

nah I can’t even be bothered! 😎

Still doesn’t say whether the deal is finalized — has the government approved?

yea a bit too soon for that. :rolleyes:

Still doesn’t say whether the deal is finalized — has the government approved?

yea a bit too soon for that. :rolleyes:

Still doesn’t say whether the deal is finalized — has the government approved?

Still doesn’t say whether the deal is finalized — has the government approved?

Boeing Wins $7 Billion Contract in India

By Anjana Pasricha
New Delhi
01 May 2005
VOA News

India’s state-run airline has decided to buy 50 new Boeing jetliners in a deal worth nearly $7 billion. Both U.S.-based Boeing and its European rival, Airbus, had been vying for the massive contract.

State-run Air India says the new jets from Boeing will include eight long-haul jetliners, 15 medium-range aircraft and 27 of the company’s newest model, the “Dreamliner,” which has yet to be produced.

The jets will be delivered over a 10-year period starting in 2006.

Senior Boeing officials in India called the contract “a major win”, and hoped it would influence future decisions by private airlines that are expanding their fleets.

India’s biggest aviation deal was clinched after a year of high-profile lobbying by Boeing and Airbus executives, as well as senior government officials from the United States and Europe.

Aviation analysts say both manufacturers had offered competitive bids, and it was probably politics that tilted the scales in favor of Boeing.

Kapil Kaul of the Center for Asia-Pacific Aviation in New Delhi says “geo-political considerations” are always factored into such large deals.

“Indo-American relationship is moving on a different platform…India and U.S. are getting closer, and I think this order is perhaps a byproduct of the stronger relationship between these two countries,” he said.

India’s booming economy is spurring demand for air travel and both state-run and private airlines plan to purchase hundreds of new jets over the next five years. New budget airlines are starting operations.

India’s first international budget airline, Air-India Express, made its maiden flight on Friday from Trivandrum in southern India to the United Arab Emirates.

The airline, an arm of government-run Air India, is starting operations with three mid-sized Boeing 737-800s, and plans to operate 40 flights a week from five Indian cities.

The country’s first budget airline, Air Deccan, began operations two years ago, and two more budget carriers are due to start flying later this month.

Mr. Kaul says the coming years will see fierce competition between Airbus and Boeing for this growing market.

“There is a compelling reason for investors, manufacturers, and suppliers to be here. Our estimate is that in another five years, we will add another 300 aircraft approximately, the investment in fleet plans over the next five years would be $15 billion,” Mr. Kaul said.

Last year, another state-run airline, Indian Airlines, decided to buy 42 planes from Airbus.