aircraft fans east yorkshire

Well said everyone –

You cant do this thing for a profit (UNLESS you’re commercial and doing Spits or have a production line, a second income or a VERY understanding wife!) Speaking as someone who is involved in a 9year restoration of a Beech 18 – which not including non-cash items ie swaps, trades, buying tools etc – has cost over £50k so far! Ulp.

Remember what Clint Eastwood said

‘A mans gotta know his limitations!’

That said, the JPs are good projects – but you need to be a dedicated techie to get em and keep em in running condition!

Hope you make the right decision for you!

Cheers

TT

Lots of worthy advice for you to mull over there. I suppose the bottom line is that one has to really want to do such a project. There is so much more to consider than the initial acquisition costs. But I doubt there are many on this newsgroup who regret embarking on their projects.

I liken it to the art of collecting, anyone who collects for money is doing it wrong and missing the point. The main reason should be fun and enjoyment.

OK,

I bought a T-11 pod – just the pod – last year for £750.

It was fairly stripped out, but the fuselage was in good shape, making it a worthwhile project.

To move it from Duxford to St Albans cost about £200, and I did the driving, and loading/unloading.

I have since spent about £800 just on parts for the thing, and have yet to acquire ejections seats, or a myriad of small parts. This money is mostly things like instruments, nose leg, radios and all the bits that would go to complete the machine.

I havent yet started to do any actual work, apart from stripping down the nose leg, and a bit of remedial sanding on the pod. I would estimate that by the time it is finished, I would have somewhere over £3500 invested in it, possibly rather more. Thats without factoring any of my time into the equation. I would suggest that is is probably worth rather less than that on the open market!

So, dont get involved in these things assuming they will be cheap – they wont

Dont get involved thinking you might make a profit down the line – you wont

Lastly, dont assume you will have hordes of people flocking to help you – apart from an initial flurry of interest, you will find yourself working alone…

Cheers

Bruce

Thought anymore about that money making scheme I proposed for you yesterday?

Gulp!

A note of caution here b!
If you think the cost of the a/c is either your major cost or a significant cost, I’m afraid that’s a big error.
Housing, tools, transport, expenses, parts etc etc – ALL will INDIVIDUALLY total up to more than the airframe will cost you once you get started.
I don’t want to put you off, but regard the aircraft cost as 1/5 of your budget – max.
I’d strongly suggest you get a learning curve by working with some other folks – and if a journey to another group is off putting now, think again about your own project when it’s in a cold shed up the bum of beyond…
Good luck though!

Hi
I’d listen very carefully to what both JDK and Melv are saying here.
Working alone on a project like this can sap the will-power of the strongest of us.
Once the initial enthusiasm is gone it can take real discipline to get up each day and go out to a usually cold and cheerless workshop (during the ten month English Winter) to work on any project, be it car, motorbike, boat or aeroplane.
I’ve had some experience of the first three on that little list and never intend to do any of it again!
My hat is very definitely lifted to someone like Melv who’s just spent four years locked in a Hampshire cowshed restoring his Rearwin.

Very well worth considering before you start.
Cheers
Andy.
PS Melv, sorry about the compliment. I promise never to spoil you like that again. Next post will be back to insults only.
Thought anymore about that money making scheme I proposed for you yesterday?

Which expands on what I said at the start.
A JP fuselage is quoted as being 34feet long. Wingspan is about 35 feet. (http://www.warbirdalley.com/jp.htm)

Put one wing on trestles and you need 25 feet by 15 feet in order to get around it and work. Now, if you are going to take it apart significantly you will need to make up a jig and you would need even more floor area for this. You need room to store tools, spares, a kettle and the other main parts.

The fuselage would take up even more space.

The shed I rented for the Rearwin was disgusting. It had bushes growing on the inside and it flooded. It was baking hot in the summer and freezing in the winter. This was £65 a month and this would have been too small for a JP.

The pic shows the Rearwin being trial rigged. The bushes can be seen. All the far end of the building as you see it here would flood when it rained heavily and would take ages to dry as there was not through air. The only way of getting the wings on was to turn the fuselage sideways but then it was hard to get around the front. The atmosphere in there made it impossible to paint unless the weather was perfect. I may not have been able to do the reubild without the building but the building also cost me a lot of time.

As James said, getting the aeroplane is the first step. Why not get somethign way smaller, a PFA type for example, and actually make it fly. After all, when you have finished your JP it is just abother JP witout a museum to live in. What are you going to do with it?

A note of caution here b!

If you think the cost of the a/c is either your major cost or a significant cost, I’m afraid that’s a big error.

Housing, tools, transport, expenses, parts etc etc – ALL will INDIVIDUALLY total up to more than the airframe will cost you once you get started.

I don’t want to put you off, but regard the aircraft cost as 1/5 of your budget – max.

I’d strongly suggest you get a learning curve by working with some other folks – and if a journey to another group is off putting now, think again about your own project when it’s in a cold shed up the bum of beyond…

Good luck though!

I seem to recall seeing a picture of a JP fuselage being towed behind a car… Wish I could remember where I saw it…
OAW

does any one know how much it would cost to dimantle a jp move it from bruntingthorpe to yorkshire and put it back together?

Speak to the boyz at Doncaster Aeroventure as they are experts at moving such aircraft cheaply….a JP would not be difficult to dismantle and move

Well, this is what I would recon. I’m not an expert on UK geography, but what I can tell you is that I’ve had a Jodel DR1051 transported for me, from Hastings to Bedford. It cost me 1250 quid, exactly, and a Jodel is a lot smaller and lighter than a JP

what i am thinking is this is not possible. sorry. i`m looking in to getting my own project or possibley some sort of joint ownership. but if what you say is true. the transport costs more than the aircraft and that puts me off the idea

I do not know how much the transport is going to be, best guess is a couple of thousand pounds sterling :confused: For the dismantling bit, if you are going to have someone do it for you, recon on about three blokes for a two days (dismantling and making ready for transport), each of them on about 25 quids an hour. That would make 600 for the dismantling process in labour, plus expenses (things needed to secure the airframe on the trailer etc.).

When you are putting it back togeather, what do you want to do with it? If you are just going to have it as it was, the reverse would hold true. About 600 quids. If you are going to do anything, it will cost money. What exactly are you thinking?

does any one know how much it would cost to dimantle a jp move it from bruntingthorpe to yorkshire and put it back together?

i have seen the static jp on ebay. looks good. its the sort of thing i`m after. what would it cost to get it up here.

Two Jps at Brunters for sale – one ground runs – Alan Whit i think wants £5k for the runner and 2.5k for the static – good projects…..he may even have them back on ebay!

All the best

tt

I remember someone (civilian instructor) at Driffield ATC saying he was thinking of starting a project. They have the land on which to work on an airframe. Email me and I’ll pass on your details.

Hi

One happy Australian has just secured an F111 for Warbird use – perhaps this is a little much for you to statrt with.

Seriously I would think the best course of action would be to take James advice and consult a group – perhaps even help out with their projects while you learn the ropes and then take on your own.

Regards
John P

thrid party

That’ll be a drinking games party then Melv?

More sensibly, I’d suggest talking to a few groups with track records. In my experience, most people and groups are happy to give advice. The more you get, the better a picture you’ll build up!

Cheers

got to be honest. never heard of a cloudster before (is that the right name?) still its a fantastic looking aeroplane. well done. my plans will be a little less ambitious. i thought i was the only one daft enough to be up at this time.

Remember that some of the costs are the same if you do it airworthy or not. A JP would take up a little more space on the floor than the Cloudster so housing it is going to be your main concern. Depending on whether you have it at a place that is open to the public then you might need thrid party insurance. Add in your travelling and then you can think about starting.

Like I said, not trying to put you off at all but do it with your eyes open.

MH

got to be honest. never heard of a cloudster before (is that the right name?) still its a fantastic looking aeroplane. well done. my plans will be a little less ambitious. i thought i was the only one daft enough to be up at this time.