Hi guys
I was going to post this on the Flypast forum but as its down I though I would post it here. Anyway it is kind of a general discussion.
Read the following article then read my question.
*****
The Smirking Airman
Goddard’s first venture into the world of the unexplained involved a photograph. In 1975, the seventy-eight year old retired Air Marshal Sir Victor Goddard published the story of a photograph that he had kept for many years. It was a group photograph of his squadron. It was taken in early 1919 at the end of World War I and portrayed some 200 men and women who survived the fighting. It was an official RAF photograph. Nobody could have tampered with either the photograph or its negative at any time. When the photo was developed, it was placed on the squadron bulletin board so that those who wanted copies could sign up for them. There was one thing wrong, though. There was an extra face in the photograph, a face belonging to the late Airman Freddy Jackson. Jackson was a mechanic, who died by heedlessly walking into a spinning propeller two days before the squadron, which was to be disbanded, posed for the photo. In fact, his funeral took place on the day the squadron gathered for the photo. In the photo (above), everyone is wearing a hat but Jackson. Everyone is looking grim except Jackson, who is smiling enigmatically. The others had reason to look grim-they had just returned from Jackson’s funeral.
Is the face in the photo really that of Jackson’s spirit? Goddard and others of the squadron were convinced that it was. Goddard, in his book Flight Towards Reality, suggests that Jackson’s expression seemed to say: “My goodness me-I nearly failed to make it-They didn’t wait, or leave a place for me, the blighters!”*****
Now my question is not did this happen or do you beleive in it. My questions are. What squadron was at Drem , Gullane or Fenton Barns as it was somtimes called in 1919? Also where can I find a copy of the original photo? Has anyone heard of this before and have you seen a photo like this before? Are there any records of a Freddy Jackson having died in 1919? Where is his Grave?
I know this is a lot of questions but I live just up the road for the airfield and I fly Radio Controlled aircraft from this very site. I also researched the airfields and was doing a search for any other related pages on the web when I found this. I am needless to say VERY VERY interested in this. Even if the photo is fake which I dont think it is I am still interested in the death of the air mechanic.
I have attached a photo from a site that I found. I cant remember the name of the site but it was a paranormal site but they have put a blown up insert over the area where the airman apperars. This is why I would like to see the original.
Regards Scott
Attachments:
By: seahawk - 19th November 2002 at 07:32
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
Thx kev
By: Merlin3945 - 18th November 2002 at 19:50
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
Thanks kev.
Why didnt I think of that before. The local newspaper might have had something in it but I have found that so far most of the stories that made the local paper were only when the incidents involved a civilian.
When the military are the sole loss then usually they didnt or werent allowed to report. But a serious source for research all the same. I will make an effort to have a look in the paper and our local history centre has the paper on microfilm which is handy. I must admit it is a bit of a task trying to find out which piece it is in though as I only have Early 1919 to go on. but the paper is only a weekly paper so it wont be too hard. I would also have to look through the Scotsman and The Edinburgh Evening News as these are local too.
Regards Merlin
By: kev35 - 18th November 2002 at 11:51
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
Seahawk.
The CWGC website is the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website which is a searchable database of British and Commonwealth casualties of both World War I& II. It gives details of where the casualty is buried or commemorated and for each individual gives name, rank, service number, service and unit and sometimes other personal information such as where they were from and age. It really is invaluable.
I think the address is www.cwgc.org
Regards,
kev35
By: seahawk - 18th November 2002 at 10:56
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
What is the CWCG website ??
By: kev35 - 18th November 2002 at 09:25
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
Merlin.
They are definitely Naval uniforms amongst the group. The RAF was formed in April 1918 as an amalgamation of The RFC and RNAS and by early 1919 one would assume they would have all worn the RAF uniform. If Drem was a training depot station surely it would have been run under the auspices of the RAF at that time? Another point is would they be training pilots and observers at that time as well. After 1918 there was a massive reduction in the size of the air force thereby resulting in a surplus of trained aircrew with more than sufficient numbers wishing to stay ‘in’following the cessation of hostilities.
Another idea might be for you to find which newspaper covered the area at the time and check to see if they have an archive, there could be a small report on the incident. If you ever find where Freddy Jackson was from try the local press for that area too.
With such an interesting story have you thought of checking the ‘Ghost Stations’ series of books? Perhaps something about this incident has been published in this series. I have vilumes one and three but there is nothing in those. I must admit it is very intriguing…..
Regards,
kev35
By: Merlin3945 - 17th November 2002 at 23:01
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
I have looked through all the Jacksons for the RAF and Navy and found nothing local. Perhaps he is somewhere else now as part of a reburial but where.
The station was a TDS (Training Depot Station) at the time but I still have no clue what squadrons were there.
Still looking for more info.
Merlin
By: Merlin3945 - 17th November 2002 at 22:27
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-11-02 AT 10:53 PM (GMT)]Hi Kev
Well I spotted a few mistakes in the story too.
Firstly that there were naval uniforms in the photo. It has been a shared base at times in its career so it is possible both navy and air force were there at the same time. It wouldnt be the RAF it would have been the RFC if I am right in thinking this.
It is possible that this is a navy photo so I shall search the CWGC again to look for able seamen.
In the inset there are two faces the guy in the hat partially smiling and the guy behind him. Freddy Jackson ?????
I must visit the airfield and local Cemetries. I will ask around if anyone knows where service men were buried in 1919.
Some people appear to be smiling but the overall mood seems to be a bit somber.
It is of course a pretty unlikely story and perhaps this guy did exist but the one without the hat is someone entirly differnt that everyone just forgot was there like the squadron nerd or something and he forgot his hat BUT this story really interests me. It my local area and I would just like to see the original photo and find the guys grave. It should be local because in those day a car doing 20-30 mph was good so to go to the funeral that day and get back for the photo would have took some time. So it has to be local.
By: Ant.H - 17th November 2002 at 14:49
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-11-02 AT 02:52 PM (GMT)]Being as there aren’t any records of RAF squadrons at Drem in the time in question,is it possible that this group are from a Royal Navy squadron or perhaps a mixed unit?A number of the chaps in the picture seem to be wearing Naval uniform.Just a thought.
With regard to the location of the man’s funeral,is it possible that he was exhumed and reburied at the present location at a later date?
By: kev35 - 17th November 2002 at 13:29
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
I’ve also just checked ‘Squadrons of the Royal Air Force’ by James Halley and of all the squadrons ever stationed at Drem (and there have been thirty-five of them) none were ever stationed at Drem in the period in question.
So, the plot thickens.
Regards,
kev35
By: kev35 - 17th November 2002 at 13:05
RE: Airmans ghost in squadron picture.
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 17-11-02 AT 01:36 PM (GMT)]Hi, Scott.
First of all, if you check the CWGC website for Jackson’s in 1919 you come up with three possibles but unfortunately none named Freddie. One is buried in France, one in Birmingham and the other in Abergavenny. Assuming that one of those three is your man and he was just known as ‘Freddie’ that blows the funeral theory out of the water as they could not have travelled to either of those funerals and got back to Scotland.
Now, the text runs something like ‘in the photo above he is the only one smiling and not wearing a hat.’ That means the photograph you have found cannot be right as the inset circular photo shows a man wearing a hat. One or two of those in the photo also appear to be smiling.
I’ve just put the edit in because when I first looked at the inset photo I swear I could only see one guy wearing a hat, no-one else. Now I can. So now I can see what you are talking about.
I’m not saying this isn’t true, it’s eminently possible that the story has got a bit muddled over the last eighty years but I think it needs a little more evidence than is available so far. What do you think?
Regards,
kev35
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November 17, 2002 at 11:58 am