Airplane identification

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blohm_%26_Voss_BV_141

Beaten by just a minute… 😉

Its a Blohm und Voss Bv141… stick that into Google for plenty of details and photos 🙂

Nice bits of footage can be viewed here and here…

Cheers
Peter D Evans
LEMB Administrator

Without checking I would say that it is a FW 189.

Instead of opening a new thread…I put my question here:
Which bizarre air vehicle is this

HI , I was just browsing when I came upon this thread and I found it extremely interesting and wondered if there ever was any conclusion as to the type of Aircraft that was found?.

Hello again.

Sorry to say that it will be mid November before I’ll have a chance to have a look at the schedule and as Elliott has pointed out it may not turn up anything.

Anne

Hi Anne,

I’ll see if I can get one of my contacts to hunt down the Whitley war equipment schedule to see if 5U/2492 appears in it. It will take a good couple of weeks though.

Did you have any luck on this one?

email me at: [email]philday@ntlworld.com[/email]

Will be later rather than sooner.

In that case it’s not a mossie

as most of the wing was wood…

When are you planning on diving it next? How deep is it? I am a diver and would love to take a look, but things are quite hectic right now.

From what I remember the engines were a distance from one another not close by attached to the same wing-although I am sure it was possible that the wing could have broken between engines, but I doubt that. Now we coming up with this plywood theory……. The ribs were definately aluminium, and I would be 99% certain that the rest of the wing was-would these plywood aeroplanes have aluminium ribs-and I do not think plywood would have lasted that long.

To id the aircraft…

Phil, your best bet would be to bring up a small section of airframe with lots of small parts. You should find a part number or two and this should tell us what the aircraft is.

Of course it is illegal to disturb aircraft remains without a licence from the MoD so you’ll have to use your good judgement. Perhaps you know some fishermen who have trawled up some parts?

Not a whitley i’m afriad….

As Whitley’s were 12V not 24V and this pump is a relatively late wartime one, certainly not early war.

I would give my right arm for some pics tho!!

How sure are we it only has two engines? Could others be buried? If it is a twin engined merlin aircraft I would suggest mossie (wood may well be preserved still), beaufighter, manchester, wellington.

Other inline twins – Hereford (but likely to be 12V) or whirlwind.

I would guess mossie/beau or a four engined bomber with only a pair of engines uncovered.

Elliott

No problem Mike, I usually have the same problem but it’s normally due to too many glasses of the red stuff and not over work.

Originally posted by EN830
Didnt’ I mention that in an earlier post I quote

“In which case could this be whittled down to just a Merlin equipped aircraft, in which case what would we be looking at ?:-

Wellington ll though the geodetic construction would give it away.”

Sorry, missed that bit-not paying attention again-probably due to one too many night shifts

Phil
Geodetic (note spelling) construction is an open framework, covered in fabric. Rather than try to explain it any further, look here:
http://www.museum-explorer.org.uk/museum-explorer/exhibit_photos.php?Exhibit=48

(Well done, Michael)

It was devised by Barnes Wallis, I believe based on his airship experience.

Thanks for that Ross, though I don’t suppose there is anything rare & salvable down there after all this time in the salt water. Having said that, I saw a cracking photo of a Wellington lying on the bottom of the med whilst surfing the net a while back. All the fabric had gone, but the geodectic airframe was all still intact complete with open cockpit escape hatch. Alas I didn’t save the pic.

Has aybody dived and surveyed any of these dumping grounds just incase ?

Hi Coanda,

Thanks for lesson and the description of the “engine nacelles”-would you mind for my second lesson to go on to “geodectic construction” 🙂

The vis conditions are not too bad were the plane is situated:

Lat 53 25 98
Lon 01 02 43

I think this is about 40 miles offshore-the plane being in about 12m depth. I have already sent these co-ordinates to Ross-he replied:

The bulk of the twin engine aircraft are Hampdens and Wellingtons but these
had radial engines (pistons in a circle round a circular crankcase) not the
inline piston engine you described.

Three Whitleys were lost but all about 20 miles from the position.

Anglesey is were I first got my taste of wreck diving-the club that I am a member in Manchester still dive there now-I am told there are aircraft around there but I have never dived on one. Anglesey is a fine place to dive. If the wind is blowing you can always go to the leeward side of the island and dive in the calm there. When you start to go out further from the island the depths become unpractical for working.

The North Sea has some very good wrecks but the problem being if there is any North or East in the wind then it makes it difficult to dive. You can go fo miles and miles out to sea and still only be in 10-15m of water.

One other thought you guys may know-We bought a wreck called “The Manchester Engineer” 1905, (ex-Nation, 1917 purchased from Treasury S.S.Co, Liverpool, renamed Manchester Engineer), 1917 torpedoed and sunk off Flamborough Head. 4415 tons. I have never done any research on the ship-in fact I have only dived on it once-but when we bought it we were told that amongst its cargo was aeroplane engines-could anyone confirm this?

Hi Shorty01,

It was a dumping ground for Lend-Lease aircraft.

The more usual area was Beaufort Deep but a few inshore areas were used around the UK.

Regards
Ross

The Whitley Project website lists 19 OTU losses at

http://www.griffon.clara.net/19/whitley_losses.htm

if that is any help.

I know this is getting off the subject, but I found this on a diving site a few years ago about diving in Bigbury Bay, Devon.

“Yet another World War Two mystery lies off Burgh Island. Locals call this “The Aircraft Graveyard” because here lie the aluminium bodies and wings of aircraft, including at least two Catalinas. But no one can explain how these aircraft got there – there are no engines to be seen at the 20m site”.

Anyone know anything about it ?

sorry phil,

the engine nacelles would be that area of the aircraft that the engines are located at, more or less where the cowls are, this areof the aircraft is usually quite unique……that and the landing gear bays which are going ot be just behind the engines in this case.

all ofthe aircraft types considered here have large teardrop shaped fairings which hold the engine at the front (in whatever form) and behind that a bay for the main landing gear. The fairings being located at about a 1/3 of the wing span on each side of the aircraft.

this area can be a dead giveaway for aircraft type, and although the aircraft is upside down it is still going to be enough to identify the aircraft type.

I understand that vis conditions in the sea are nearly always dismal around our coastline, but perhaps two pictures could deal with this whole section of aircraft, in an attempt to identify the type.

it is true that features like geodetic construction will give away the aircraft type if it is a wellington, but if not, what then is it?

another are for consideration would be the tail surfaces, even upside down, a vague outline of the horizontal stabilizers would be enough to fix an aircraft type.

just some thoughts for your consideration!

keep up the good work.

have you ever dived off of anglsey? there are a great many wrecks there if i remember rightly?

coanda