Alan Turing 'Pardon' – Brilliant news

Either way, according to principles and ‘values’ prevailing, the outcome was both predictable and certain, the more especially as it was a constable that was murdered.

In those times – the early 50’s, humanitarian considerations had no place in a Court of Law. If they had, young men, like Derek Bentley, already in custody and accused of murder wouldn’t have been judicially murdered as an accessory after the fact.

He was more a principal in the second degree than an accessory after the fact. The former is considered far more serious than the latter.

David, you are right. One can’t ignore certain evidence. Apart from my Christmastide induced, rose tinted specs, I do see a shift away from ancient shibboleths of aversion and dislike. This might be because of the threat of legal sanctions – hate crime and suchlike.

I remain upbeat, we are after all a society which gives hugely to charitable causes and that is a good basis upon which to build.

John – ‘We appear now to be, thank Heaven, a kinder and more tolerant society’ – I really wish this was true ! Every time you log onto the news it seems to be occupied with hospitals that fail in care -care homes that treat old people as products and sundry people using the internet for the worst of reasons.

Re25

Don’t think so old boy ! You are writing that the law is the law and should be observed irrespective. Of course you are right. One can’t ‘cherry pick’.

If there is any ‘point missing’ it’s from your side. Alan Turing was pardoned because society has moved on from its condemnation of certain areas of human activity; homosexuality being one of them. We appear now to be, thank Heaven, a kinder and more tolerant society, aware that in most respects human sexuality is not an arena for State interference.

There you have it old chap !

“In all of this Turing had options where he could have taken a different course with maybe different results. None of what I have read indicates that he was treated any differently to anybody else in the same situation”.

Quite so, he may have decided that he was better off at university, and not joined the Bletchley park team, that would have been the right choice for him personally, as his sexual preference, coupled with his top secret work, wouldn’t have caused him to become a security risk, unless of course the Nazis, who by this time had starved the UK into capitulation, (not least because of their successful campaign in the Atlantic) installed a “puppet” govt in their new territory “England”; apparently they were a bit down on homosexuality as well…….

We all have choices, but some times our destiny is in some way pre-ordained, and our destination will always be the same, regardless of the paths we take.

Sad the Government could not look beyond his sexuality and see the brilliance.
I wonder what he may have achieved had he been given the opportunity?

Re 20

He was pardoned primarily because although the State still has something to say about human sexuality it does so with a much lighter touch and deservedly so. Because a law is placed on Statute or becomes Common Law doesn’t necessarily make it a wise and just law. Read again my last paragraph in 19 above. Societies values ebb and flow and we change or should change accordingly.

Or, would you still hang or transport children for stealing a slice of bread ?

You are missing my point old chap.

The Guardian article has it spot on. If the reason for his death was down to persecution owing to his homosexuality, it is imperative that all other homosexuals that suffered under that law are now also pardoned.

I don’t think I like the revisionism that is gaining ground at present. We cannot ascribe modern day values to past events, however wrong they were.

At the time of his death, Turings work was known by but a handful of people. The passage of time has allowed us to view his wartime work for what it was, and to recognise his place in the history of modern computing.

Bruce

I must admit, I have a few reservations about the “revisionist” aspect, but for a man who made such a profound if unsung contribution to the War -and thus to our lives today- I’m more than happy to set those doubts aside. Even if we judge it all by the standards of the times, I’d imagine there were any number of gay men in high places back then who got themselves in a scrape and benefitted from a judicial blind eye. Turing should have been one of them.

An interesting view on the subject

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/dec/24/alan-turing-pardon-wrong-gay-men

Re 20

He was pardoned primarily because although the State still has something to say about human sexuality it does so with a much lighter touch and deservedly so. Because a law is placed on Statute or becomes Common Law doesn’t necessarily make it a wise and just law. Read again my last paragraph in 19 above. Societies values ebb and flow and we change or should change accordingly.

Or, would you still hang or transport children for stealing a slice of bread ?

Some people here seem to think that if you are doing a certain job, it puts you above the law of the land. Alan Turing was breaking the law. Doing valuable work does not excuse you from obeying the law. So what is the reasoning behind the pardon? If he’s pardoned because the law has changed then many others have also to be pardoned. If he’s pardoned because of the work he was doing, then that is quite simply wrong from a legal standpoint.

Recognition of Alan Turing’s pivotal contribution to the winning of the Battle of the Atlantic, the loss of which would have meant either the loss of the whole war or, its prolongation came, unhappily for him, with the perspective of time.

National security was, with the advent of the Cold War, a priority. Alan Turing’s work was still classified. If the profound nature of his research had been widely known and understood then perhaps matters in the magistrates court might have had a different outcome.

In those times – the early 50’s, humanitarian considerations had no place in a Court of Law. If they had, young men, like Derek Bentley, already in custody and accused of murder wouldn’t have been judicially murdered as an accessory after the fact.

Thank you for your valuable contribution. (What has Jimmy Savile to do with anything?)

Moggy

Moggy, my point was the fact that homosexual men were accused of being Pedophile’s, time and time again I have heard it. Jimmy Savile was mentioned purely for that reason the two are not necessarily the same thing.
Your post is related to his homosexuality of which he was persecuted for and now pardoned.
I will not comment further on this subject as it is my view.
I still feel its a GD as the news is he had a pardon for being homosexual not because he was a code breaker.

Yes GD is the proper place for it but how many homosexuals have been forcibly chemically castrated?
And I see little connection with Turing and orher homosexuals and those convicted or suspected as paedophiles. You of all people should be aware that the two are rarely the same.

As I am saying Charlie, wrongfully ! I more than understand

Very glad to see that some amends are made for the appalling way that Alan Turing was treated.

The reality of the situation that surrounded Turing was that he met a young man -who’s friend broke into Turing’s house . As a result of trying to prosecute the offender the circumstances of Turing’s relationship became clear and he was prosecuted. That was the law at the time . Turing had the option of imprisonment but opted for chemical castration. Subsequent to this he possibly took his own life -its not entirely clear if that was intentional or not -having the chemicals required to do so in his bedroom might not be considered prudent with hindsight.

In all of this Turing had options where he could have taken a different course with maybe different results. None of what I have read indicates that he was treated any differently to anybody else in the same situation.

Without wishing to justify the legalities of the time in Britain -maybe we should reflect on the situation in some parts of world now where sundry states view
human rights in a far poorer way than Turing was treated .

It was disgusting how this hero was treated. He and his team saved 100s of 1000s of lives and shortened the war. I wonder how much the people of the late 40s/early 50s knew of his work? I am normally no a fan of revisionism and judging older times thru ‘new’ eyes – however, I cannot believe such a hero, or gay people in general, were treated in that way.

Sorry to P155 on the bonfire, as a gentleman that has a son who is Gay and I love with all my heart, I think number one this should be in General Discussions, also what about all the other Gay men prosecuted, persecuted, imprisoned, ridiculed in the press and labelled as disgusting perverts by all and sundry be now pardoned?

.

He is being recognised for the work he did and his name bought back into a positive light after being tarred so wrongly.Hopefully this is the start for others but you may need to list them and their achievements.
Everything starts with a single step.