Alcock and Brown in a Vickers Vimy ?

I would find it very strange that a man making 22 flying machines and studied closely Otto Lilienthal…hadn’t even crashed a barn with his machine. His twin prop system with IC engine looks very very similar to Wright’s arrangement.

There was a very good series of Philip Jarrett articles in Aeroplane during the Wright Centenary year (2003) about other claims to being the first to fly (Gustav Whitehead, Richard Pearse etc etc). In summary, the conclusion was that there is no firm proof of any other powered and controlled flight before the Wrights. PJ seems to have studied the subject exhaustively and scientifically so his is an opinion I tend to trust on the subject.

Even IF someone else did fly earlier, they certainly didn’t have the same body of scientific knowledge and rigour as the Wrights and so on the grounds of doing their homework the Wrights win hands-down.

Ok..there are several comments in the web that claim it was catapulted on a rail.

Gustave himself claimed his plane flew. He had studied Ottos gliders in Berlin.

Wright’s catapulted landing gearless plane flew straight and level.

Are you referring to the Wrights’ flights on 17 December 1903? These were not made with a ‘catapult’. The assisted take off device the Wrights designed did not get used until mid/late 1904 on their second aeroplane at Huffman Prairie, near Dayton, Ohio, because of the space available was insufficient for a running take off. The first flights in 1903 were made unassisted; the aircraft lifted off the ground under its own power.

There is also no reaL evidence Gustave Whitehead’s ‘aircraft’ ever got off the ground. None at all.

Here’s for the ladies…Amelias first Atlantic flight arriving at Southampton Water in 1928.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMaWAXFL9w0

Dear aviators…ladies and gentlemen !

As the 2019 is nearing…are we going to see a flying specimen of a Vickers Vimy in 2019 ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AFedpGeMJ04

Yes John Green Sir George Cayley designed a plane that may have flown. We might also believe Gustave Whitehead made a flight in 1901 with engine power. All we know for sure that Felix du Temple de la Croix plane with steam power flew in 1874, but that was down hill.Wright’s catapulted landing gearless plane flew straight and level.

Yet Lilienthal and Wrights recorded every step with great detail.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%A…le_de_la_Croix

snibble,

The Apollo 11 flight was first real step in conquering the distant planets ( all Apollos except 1 and 13 certainly were also as refined and flawless ). We haven’t flown around the world with solar power…non stop…someone will do it one day. Yes and Geminis all displayed great control too but lacked the range.

Space flight needs a working light ION drive manned system….I bet the ION drive is the future. So far just probes have had those…and ISS.

Who on earth would consider Apollo 11 the ” first real controlled space flight “? Did Gemini 6 and 7 just happen to run into each other? Did Gemini 8 collide with the Agena target by accident? Every space flight has been properly controlled. Even Apollo 13 came down right where it was supposed to. 13 did of course temporarily lose control as did Gemini 8, both due to major malfunction but in both cases the pilot regained control.

So far as Otto Lilienthal’s alleged first flight of a heavier-than-air machine in 1891, George Cayley the designer and John Appleby the pilot, both during 1853 and both British, might become slightly excited having then made the first flight.

I forgot to type ….of a solar powered non stop around the world flight…it is still waiting !

Indeed

you will find that this was acheived over 30 years ago. Try searching on Rutan and Voyager

Unrefuelled yes, but if you count air to air refuelling on a round the world flight try searching for B-52 distance records and you’ll push the time frame back another 30 years.
As others have pointed out researching theses things isn’t rocket science.

“We are still waiting the non stop world around flight………”

If you follow the search instructions given by Don in post #38 you will find that this was acheived over 30 years ago. Try searching on Rutan and Voyager

If we still want to analyze more. Otto Lilienthal first glide took place in 1891…and Solar Impulse flew around the world in 2016…with solar alone. That was a 125 year stretch. So if moon flight 1969 was considered first real controlled space flight then 1969 + 125 gives us the year 2094.

We are still waiting the non stop world around flight on solar power…so 2094 may be too early…ION drive needs solar power..or nuclear.

Why I find Alcock and Brown especially interesting is an analogy that I can draw from 1903 Wright Brothers flight to Alcock and Brown flight in 1919….and from the first significant space flights. Lothar Sieber was the first man to take off vertically with a rocket in 1945…and first man in space was Yuri Gagarin exactly 16 years later in 1961. Sieber; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isaWV45MkzM

If we then take the Rutan/Yaeger flight with Voyager 1986…there is 83 years in between the Wrights flight…and if we consider only Gagarin flight as a first real space flight..then the next outstanding space flight will take place in 2044…83 years after 1961.

Will that be beyond Mars…the time will tell.

What do you think ?

Yes jolly good Don,

Funny that you found a newspaper in Finland in Kaskö ( small town on the west coast ) where I last year did some townplanning.

We all know now a lot more about Alcock and Brown than we did a month ago ?

Maybe the 20ies had to have a new hero and thus Lindy became the “First Atlantic crossing person” ???

Yes Don I agree there was a bit of intented pun in it !

But if you had ask me a month a go to tell us about Alcock and Brown…I would not have known where to start.

Ok Don.

I am sorry for having opened a thread about two unknown aviators Alcock and Brown.

rgds,

Juke

No need for apologies…you filled many details here.

Apologies topspeed, I now understand your original question. I would think that anyone interested in aviation who was born before the invention of the internet would know about Alcock and Brown. This is because the only way to learn about aviation back then, in the mists of time, was to read books and magazines about it. Any book on the history of aviation would have some detail about their flight, simply because it was considered to be one of the greatest flights of all time, especially if you were British !
The reason for the apology is that I, having been born in 1948, could not believe that anyone would appear to be questoning whether the flight actually happened, which I’m afraid is how I read your original question – sorry for that !