Seriously. I’ve long considered we need an honest, warts and all appraisal of the post-war British aircraft industry, unblinkered by all the usual sentimental “we wuz robbed” tosh, and I reckon our very own “Akertken” is just the chap who could do it. Seldom seen a post here that doesn’t offer some new insight or info, like in the current thread on the alleged US/UK Transport aircraft pact in WWII. Don’t know who you are, but I reckon your knowledge needs to be put into some collated form or other before you walk under a bus or something! Seriously though, I think there’s the potential here for a great book. Anyone agree?
By: bazv - 30th May 2012 at 03:35
If only life were that simple 😉 eh Ken,whilst agreeing that the a/c firm directors screwed up bigtime…the same can be said for directors from other industries…we have always suffered poor leadership and lack of reinvestment in this country and I think it would be naive to believe that Governments/MOD/Airlines do not share some of the blame for our industries downfall…good old politics – whether it be boardroom or westminster are always guaranteed to muddy the waters.
Sometimes one has to look carefully at the personalities of the time and try to decipher what really was going on.
One of the airfields I used to work at…in the flight shed toilets,one trap had a larger cubicle with a higher ‘Throne’ – this originally had been put in for management only…so we all used to delight in using that one 🙂
rgds baz
As the Moodies used to sing… ‘Question’
By: Seafuryfan - 29th May 2012 at 23:20
Proposal seconded. Mr Creosote (post #1) astute in observation. Alertken combines brevity with clarity. Much information condensed into few words. Suspect full book to reveal plenty.
By: Arabella-Cox - 29th May 2012 at 22:23
Oh No!
The alertken infallability myth has just been broken:D
Anon.
By: GrahamSimons - 29th May 2012 at 21:06
Well… if you do write this book – I hope you note that it was Britannia AIRWAYS not Airlines!
Also – the Britannia 1-11/737 saga is well covered in Geoffrey Cuthbert’s work ‘Flying to the Sun’
By: Arabella-Cox - 29th May 2012 at 20:55
Book?
So, that’s the abridged version. All you need to do now is fill in the gaps to cover 250 pp’s and, et voila, a book:D
Can I order my copy now?;) (signed, of course).
Anon.
By: alertken - 29th May 2012 at 11:34
kind words, Mr.C.
sw: Empire is firstly about test flying. From (shared by me and all right thinking folk) admiration for those pushing the envelope, he moves on to bewailing absence of such courage by Ministers, not funding UK projects and instead buying (US). So it’s vested interests/pleading for a special case. Every Govt. has that from Day One: farmers, shipbuilders, coal miners …everyone is a special case. On this Board we all think Aero is special. But why should the public purse – my taxes and yours – be used to free any one industry from Darwin efficiency – the fittest survive, the feeble expire to leave room for their betters.
If you flick through the 50 Years of Farnborough Show book, from, what, 1949 to 1958-ish, UK prototypes cavorted in all Aero sectors; GW tubes sat static in almost all applications; test bed engines were shown across the range from rocket and ramjet, through shaft turbines, gas generators, to massive Gyron. Very modest risk-investment was involved: you and I paid for nearly all. A grotesque myth is of heedless Ministers starving the golden Aero-goose. Just not so. Money cascaded into production, from Korean Rearmament; technology was disseminated – free – from Defence Research Establishments, and acquired by Ministers on know-how licence deals – core, crucial to GW. If UK Auto, UK brown goods, UK white goods… had enjoyed such subsidy…goodness, how different might UK engineering/manufacturing sectors be today.
Aero squandered its unique privilege. Boardroom culture was as expressed by Sir Fred HP: “The role of the State is to provide facilities for fattening the goose which will lay the golden eggs” Flight,15 January,1960, at P.6, K.Hayward,Govt and British Civil Aerospace,MUP,1983. In the immortal words of the Blessed Margaret: No! No! No! “The State” can’t do that – pick winners. My taxes can ease, say by deflecting unfair intervention by dirigism/prestige players…but only the Design firm can find, win and retain customers.
Q: Why, do you suppose, did Britannia Airlines buy – even launch – 737-200 not 1-11/400?
A: Because Boeing exerted themselves so to support their customer, that Seattle became closer to Luton – for parts/advice..care generally, than did Hurn. Ditto BOAC/BEAC. Douglas in Santa Monica, on DC-7C, was closer to BOAC/LHR, than HP/Radlett had been on Hermes: Sir Fred, again: BOAC in ’49 sought to reject heavy, unprofitable Hermes: “this tough attitude (surprised &) disappointed” (him) C.H.Barnes,HP A/c,Putnam,76,P466.
By: Stepwilk - 28th May 2012 at 23:18
The best book I’ve read on the subject is “Empire of the Skies.”
By: J Boyle - 28th May 2012 at 23:04
Agree, I’m always interesed in objective UK aviation history.
I might also recommend Bill Gunston’s books.
Plane Speaking addresses has several chapters about about UK industry, and his Bomber, Attack aircraft and Early Supersonic Fighters of the West give good type histories.
By: paul178 - 28th May 2012 at 22:31
M15 will probably push him under a bus if he does!:D
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May 28, 2012 at 10:01 pm