Allied Prisoners of war in Northern Italy, 1943

The truth about my words is showed by the letter you and your friend JDK wrote me about your proposal of a common article. If you desire I may copy them right now, and we will see who is doing false premises here.

Let’s be clear – I offered you an opportunity to publish on the matter in a magazine not associated with this website, which I also suggested might result in further information coming to light. You declined, as the minimal (normal) remuneration wasn’t sufficient, which I thought reasonable. As far as I’m concerned that closed that matter. Don’t drag my name into a dispute, thank you.

For the record, I said on PM:

G’day Marco,
I have been following your researches on this thread, and found it most interesting. I am a Contributing Editor for an Australian aviation magazine, xxxxxxx and I think an account of the story and your research may well be of interest to our readers. If you are interested, I’d suggest a collaboration with Kev35, whose input I think has been most valuable. Kev’s said he’d be happy to help.

An article in Australia may well flush out further information for your essay you mention.

Please drop me an e-mail on [email]xxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxx[/email]
Yours
James

Yours,

In my mind, if you had a problem with me, you simply had to write or to call me by phone. I am not stupid and I would have been pleased to talk about this.
Here, I simply created a topic concerning history, asking about several POWs. I absolutely did not wanted to quarrel in such a unhappy and infantile way – that’s for sure.

I published this book and it’s a very good one. This polemic is completely fool, because you have never read a single page of this book.
Your words about the “tribute to the man who wrote” are simply offensive and coarse, and they speak for themselves.

I am sorry for this incredible debate and I have no excuse for the other users for this silly show – I consider closed this topic. Thank you all and best regards.

Marco.

“I am sorry Kev, but I don’t know what to say to you. You are the only one who answered me in that way here. If you desired to much to publish an essay about this wreck, well, let’s start climbing up there by yourself and good luck.”

The difference is that I would have found a Wellington. The point you are refusing to admit is that you were writing an essay about a Lancaster and crew. It was only the assistance and diligence of others which convinced you otherwise. Other people did the research for you. 90% of what you learned was handed to you on a plate by others.

If your ‘essay’ was in English then I would read it, it would be interesting to know just how much of a tribute it is to the men who died aboard LN466, or whether it is more of a tribute to the man who wrote…..

“my research – the one started up there on mountain, on my own risk, and ended after about 1.200 Euro of expenses for books, travels and so on.”

Feel free to think what you will. I think that ends our correspondence.

kev35

As you prefer – This is a ridiculous and childish behaviour. We call this way to think “ivory towers”: to feel outraged when you desire to publish or to write about someone else’ research. In my mind, it is better to share your knowledge with everybody, not to hide it.

I am sorry Kev, but I don’t know what to say to you. You are the only one who answered me in that way here. If you desired so much to publish an essay about this wreck, well, let’s start climbing up there by yourself and good luck.
I asked with respect and humility about the Lancaster and Wellington bombers, I thanked all the kind people who answered me, also citing them in my book. More than this would be impossible – what else to do?

The truth about my words is showed by the letter you and your friend JDK wrote me about your proposal of a common article. If you desire I may copy them right now, and we will see who is doing false premises here.

Regards.

Marco.

You, I and others know the truth of the matter and the false premises in which you asked for help.

It says far more about you than it does anyone else.

All I can suggest is that helping you in any way, shape or form is a lesson learned, and a painful one at that.

Regards,

kev35

Thank you very much Dave and Ian,

Very, very interesting indeed.

I would like to underline that it is not correct, nor professional, to criticize a research without reading before its pages.
My book almost reaches 500 pages and covers very hard times, between August and November 1943: I spent infinite nights looking for books and ORBs, but above all I travelled a lot, interviewing aged witnesses, researchers, professors and so on.
I kindly started my presence in this forum persuaded about a Lancaster wreck, as you all know, only because of a previous book who suggested this plane. Then, I discovered it was not true. I also found this Lancaster in Milan!, so this book tells the story of two planes and wrecks.

In the end, I repeat, ALL the contributors, helpers and friends of this nice research – like Kev himself, Linzee Druce and many, many others – are cited and remembered in my book. I am not ungrateful; anyway, it is not serious to criticize a work without reading it before.
Kev and an other editor kindly proposed to me to write in common something about my research, an article or an essay.
Being very busy and still having to close my research, then to finish my book, I kindly refused at the time; I also did not wanted to work without a minimal wage. I still have all the PM and e-mail of the case. Probably, this is the reason of the unhappy welcome I received in this topic.
I am sorry if this caused disappointment, but that is the way it is and I am a serious, graduated researcher, not a foolish or ungrateful one. 🙂

It would be very nice to translate this research in English, because it mainly refers to Canadian, British, Australian, Irish aviators and planes. Anyway, I suppose this eventual translation to concern above all my editor. I would be pleased to get you in touch with him, if so. 🙂

Thanks again for all your help,

Marco

Well done Marco in producing a book on the Wellington crash. Will an English language version be printed, if so, I would certainly buy a copy, as would many others, except a certain member who got out of bed on the wrong side.
Well done again.
Ian

Two possibiities here:

A New Zealand POW is listed in this newspaper report (and others) as:

Private James Christopher George Harvey (Prisoner of War)
Evening Post, Volume CXXXII, Issue 150, 22 December 1941, Page 7
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19411222.2.100&srpos=3&e=-01-1939–12-1945–10–1—-0%22harvey%2c+james%22+prisoner–

There are no listings with the spelling of Harwey, as you have spelled it. So if it was Harwey, he may not be a kiwi.

Also there was the following NZ POW listed:
Gunner Harold L. Davis (Prisoner of War, previously listed as Missing)
Evening Post, Volume CXXXVII, Issue 141, 16 June 1944, Page 6
http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&cl=search&d=EP19440616.2.57&srpos=1&e=-01-1939–12-1945–10–1—-0%22davis%2c+harold%22+prisoner–

Marco, many Allied Army prisoners of the North African campaign were imprisoned in northern Italy up till this time, so these men may not necessarily have been airmen. i have spoke with several men who were in Italian POW camps, before and after the Allied invasion of Italy. One of them, a New Zealand soldier, who was captured in North Africa, went through several prison camps in Italy, and twice escaped from tains while being moved. One of those escapes saw him free and living with partisans for many months. he was recaptured both times, and like all the others ended up in Germany.

Yes, your research into a ‘Lancaster’ that you spent hours arguing about with experts on this forum (not me) who told you it was irrefutably a Wellington.

Good luck. I pride myself on helping everyone I possibly can but you, Marco, take the biscuit.

Regards,

kev35

Yes Kev, my research – the one started up there on mountain, on my own risk, and ended after about 1.200 Euro of expenses for books, travels and so on. And as promised, all the researchers who kindly assisted me with a detail or something else are correctly cited.

Now the book has been published and I would like to know more about this misterious detail, the above mentioned history of the war prisoners. Thank you all for your kind help, if possible.

Your research?

Regards,

kev35