Amazing pics of Pearl Harbour WWII

Dear Member,

We can lock horns on this till the cows come home. But the fact was that the US and the UK were preparing for war with Japan, because they knew Japan had to do something (either cave in) or fight. They expected Japan to fight. They just did not expect Pearl Harbor. So like someone who gets beat in a fight in a bar, we declared it was not a fair fight (if there is such a thing in war) because Japan did not declare war first. The reality is most nations have always declared war “after” the hostilities have begun. The US should have expected it. It was how the Russo-Japanese War began.

Jack E. Hammond

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You will find those two words “cowardice” and “sneak attack” in nearly every account or mention of the attack from noon (Hawaii time) Dec. 7, 1941 until the 1970s, so I really doubt that it is a modern phenomenon… we are just repeating the description in the history books, movies, that our parents/grandparents, etc used… and so on.

I realize that it was a sound way of executing the less-than-brilliant plan, and required considerably courage by all involved, but the fact still remains that it was a “sneak attack”.

The much ballyhood multi-part message that was delivered late by the Japanese Ambassador did NOT, in any way, constitute a “Declaration of War”.

It said that Japan was breaking off negotiations… something that did not automatically mean a commencement of hostilities… either then or now.

Even if it had been delivered before the attack started, there would still have been NO “State of War”, and the attack would still have been a peacetime attack.

I don’t think posters were bashing you, just proving that somebody gullible started this off. I’m sure it wasn’t meant as a joke.
It just reminds us of the horror and cowardice of the attack. It was a rather large mistake on Japan’s part, for they paid for it with the totally justified Nuclear attack some years later. Hiroshima cost 100,000 lives but it saved millions.

Dear Member,

Two words/phrase thrown around a lot to much today are “cowardice” and “sneak attack”. And it is the way with December 7th. The US knew the Japanese were going to do something when they forced the Dutch to suspend oil shipments and the British to reopen the Burma Road. They just did not expect the Japanese to take such a huge gamble and attack Pearl Harbor. And just because the senior US Army general and the US Navy admiral totally ignored the November 27th War Warning telegram and took no precautions does not change that fact.

Jack E. Hammond

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RE: Amazing pics of Pearl Harbour WWII

Thank you for the good pictures of the attack on Pearl Harbor.

That was stupid. If americans died it is “horror”, but killing a lot more than 100 000 japanese civilians is “justified”.

The nuclear bombing was the cheapest (in lives) military solution to ending the war! Japan no equivalent of the Harris Poll in Japan in 1945 so, how the Japanese people had no say in what would happen. A naval blockade would cause massive starvation of several hundred thousand people, at least. The Japanese Military’s view was that it would be better if all Japanese died rather than having foreign soldiers on their sacred soil! Japanese plans called for at least three divisions of US troops to be killed on transports, being transported to the beaches and, on the beaches. American estimates of 30K to 50K deaths in the first thirty days of “Operation Downfall.”
The Japan Military in their defense of the home islands plan to use chemical weapons. The USAAF had plans to retaliate by dropping thousands of tons of chemical bombs. Combat troops might have some sort of protection but, civilians would have no protection. If chemical weapons were used, estimates that at least five million civilians would die.

The only solution where there was no loss of life would have been a negotiated settlement. Japanese terms included;
1 The Emperor would remain in power.
2 The Japanese Military would be retained.
3 Japanese accused of war crimes would be tried by Japanese courts.
4 No foreign troops would be stationed on Japanese soil. (Did this include giving back Iwo Jima and Okinawa?)

This would be a fairy tale. The UK or the USSR would not go along with this.

Adrian

Scoot: mate would love to see those pics you mention mate, if not here you can always email them to me- you have my email buddy.

And this has just WHAT place in a thread about Pearl Harbour?

Couple of years back, Japan built one of the largest plutonium re-processing plant in the world to recycle spent fuel from its 50+ reactors. It will eventually have one of the largest stockpile of weapons-grade plutonium in the world. Hopefully it would down-blend the plutonium to make reactor fuel.

My father was in the US Navy during WWII and fought during the Okinawa Campaign. So, I have many of his pictures. If, its ok with him I could scan a few and post them………Man, he has some interesting stories. Different world back then! (to bad I can’t post the ones of the native girls):diablo:

for they paid for it with the totally justified Nuclear attack some years later

That was stupid. If americans died it is “horror”, but killing a lot more than 100 000 japanese civilians is “justified”.

Ok guys, you can stop bashing me now. I hadn’t seen the pics before and I thought I’d share with you all. 🙁

I don’t think posters were bashing you, just proving that somebody gullible started this off. I’m sure it wasn’t meant as a joke.
It just reminds us of the horror and cowardice of the attack. It was a rather large mistake on Japan’s part, for they paid for it with the totally justified Nuclear attack some years later. Hiroshima cost 100,000 lives but it saved millions.

Ok guys, you can stop bashing me now. I hadn’t seen the pics before and I thought I’d share with you all. 🙁

Ah yes, the infamous ‘Box Brownie’ images.

Unfortunately I have books over fourty years old that have these images in them, complete with US National Archive credits.

Lovely images, too bad about the back story.

Unicorn

JA, I have no doubt that the person who sent them to you believed the back-story, but it is also true that this is a story that has been around a bit… and is a put-up job.

Now here are some nice photos of PH… with the US archive numbers intact at the top:

http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b336/Bager1968/misc%20ships/bases/

Yeah you be right, from the national archives. Might be a legitimate posting, but if it was a joke…. why?

http://www.war-veterans.org/Pearl.htm

http://www.archives.gov/publications/prologue/2004/winter/images/pearl-harbor.jpg

Sorry,
I’m more than a bit skeptical about the “someone” found them in the box Brownie part of the story…I’m not insulting the poster, he says someone sent him the photos. Seems a bit like an internet legend to me.

I agree with Bomberboy, I doubt if someone could move around that quickly during the attack…and from research I did for a univeristy paper on the attack, I have indeed seen the big explosion shot and the wide view of the the flightline (with the two sailors and the burned PBY wing on the ground and Kingfisher) photo before.
Alll that seems to be missing is that Japanese aerial photo that shows a plane during its attack run.:D

Also, if they from the same roll of fim and recently developed, how do you account for the different tones (colours) of the prints?

I just did a quck search under “urban legends: Pearl Harbor photos” and came up with this, among others…
http://www.snopes.com/photos/military/pearlharbor.asp

The consensus is they’re photos from the U.S. National Archives

Still, they’re a bit of history about that dark (for the U.S.) day.

Moggy: Thanks for gracing me on this thread, no doubt you will let the chaps over on the Historic section know of these.

BB: mate these pics are only a few of what was on the Box, there are more, but I don’t have them, wish I did. This accounts for why they are from all over the place, but I understand your point.

It’s nice to see these pictures and the legend of the Box Brownie again. 😉

The dubiousness of the provenance doesn’t detract from the fact they are a great set of pictures.

Moggy

Indeed, the altheltic deftness of the photographer is evident by the way they certainly seemed to be able to move so very quickly round the whole harbour, regardless of the fact they were right in the middle of this all out attack.

Some of the piccys including the Shaw exploding and the Cassin or is it Downs capsized in the dock in front of the battleship have more than an air of familiarity about them, but as a collective they are very impressive indeed and thanks fo sharing them.

There is one piccy with what looks like a little dial in the bottom R/H corner………….?

Bomberboy

It’s nice to see these pictures and the legend of the Box Brownie again. 😉

The dubiousness of the provenance doesn’t detract from the fact they are a great set of pictures.

Moggy

As I said Mick, these were sent to me in an email mate, these are all I have.

Some of those photos are pretty impressive. Have they been published or seen before? Do you have any more? Might be worth getting them published in a book…