Ambassador restoration at Duxford

I didnt get any tea!! This is the stuff of Legend(s) and I missed it. 🙁

Splendid, when can I pop down for a cup?????

As soon as we have descaled the kettle! Seriously – anytime you like, we will be there on Saturday.

Wow the work that chap has done on the canberra is fantastic! three cheers to the volunteers that get their hands dirty on old airplanes!!

On Saturday a group of us converged on Old Warden to clear brambles and repaint the windsock pole. We had a great time – plenty of banter and plenty of work.

If anyone’s interested in getting involved in helping out at their local museum, now is a very good time to get in touch because volunteers are very thin on the ground at the moment.

I got sent up on top of a corn bin last year to put a windsock up…. Next time I’d be grateful if this could be done when it’s a little less windy!!!!!

I personally haven’t been thin on the ground (or in the air for that matter) for a few years now….

I made quite a lot of tea too.

Splendid, when can I pop down for a cup?????

Yes volunteering is a varied thing and you have to accept anything you are asked to do or just forget it. To give you an example, a week or so ago I spent the morning sweeping out the hangar floor, Sunday afternoon was spent paint stripping (not the hangar floor but an aircraft component) and tomorrow I will be doing some rivetting. I made quite a lot of tea too.

At least at Duxford they let voluntary workers work on airframes!!!!!

The fact is that there is a skills shortgage in the preservation movement as a whole. Finding enthusiastic volunteers who are happy to get on with a job and carry it out in a professional manner is very hard indeed.

Not having seen the Ambassador for a long time, I cant comment on the work done, but it is true to say that it is possible to take short cuts on static aircraft that one wouldnt take with flying aircraft. Personally, I try to take a long term view, and realise that the museum exhibits we have today will be research tools in the future, so it is important to try and stick to original techniques wherever possible, unless it is well documented. So many museum aircraft are little more than empty shells, and these will do little to provide information for future researchers. That said, to complete a static aircraft to the point where it is absolutely complete can be prohibitively expensive.

Bruce

Mark V, that’s not what’s been said.

Not in so many words but it seemed to be an emrging theme. IMO you have to stand up and be counted whether you are a full time restorer or a weekend volunteer.

If that is the picture published, I can’t see too much wrong with that either.

One thing I failed to mention earlier. Blind rivets or “pop rivets” as they are better known as are a godsend but they do carry risks & are easier for the untrained to use.

I am no metallurgist but these have there own problems. Certain metals react with each other. Aluminium/steel/alloys etc. You cannot use certain types of rivets on certain types of alloys, as they will corrode quicker. But weighing up the odds what do you do? This aircraft will never fly again.

I would hazard a guess here but when I was working on her the whole cabin was lined, which type of material I cannot remember. If there is no visible corrosion on these skins but after removing some inspection plates and you do find corrosion, you deal with it. Are you going to remove perfectly acceptable material so you can carry out the correct type of riveting if there is no need to remove the panel? No.
After inspecting inside with mirrors and all seems O.K. you use a wax type substance like you do in vehicle door panels to protect from condensation etc. Pop rivets with the heads filled is the answer, you have no access to hold a dolly while you rivet the seams correctly, as the professionals would do and on an airworthy aircraft.

This might seem the wrong approach to use, but in the circumstances it is the right choice.

As with the later comments, if this is the right approach will be debated for a long time to come.

BP

Fair comments here – but am alone in getting an uneasy feeling that the concensus is “unless you work on the aircraft you cannot criticise the work”? This in turn says “anything done to ‘restore’ the aircraft, regardless of quality, is good because its done by hard working volunteers”.

No comment

Doesnt look too bad to me.

The Ambassador or Robb?

Doesnt look too bad to me.

There is, undoubtedly, a skills shortage within the ranks of volunteers. It does take more supervision to have volunteers to do the work and you do need to put in systems and procedures to do things properly. Aviation preservation on this scale is not that old. Few people took on big projects, such as an Ambassador, twenty years ago.

For volunteers that may wish to go and work, remember that you are going to get the crud jobs to start. That is part of the learning experience.

However, if you hang in there you may well learn a lot that can be used outside aviation. In rebuilding the Rearwin I have had to do loads of things that I had not done before. I also did a very large amount of paint stripping AND I had to junk all the panels afterwards. I prepped welding jobs, did sheet metal work, made cables, wired things, wire-locked things as well as all the woodwork that I knew was no problem before I started.

I wish I had had help from someone like Pimpernel (could that be his real name????) as that sheet metal experience would have been very useful. I am also sure other people learned from him.

I can’t speak for the DAS (A group I have great respect for) but it remains true, the majority of people that complain about things could do more themselves.

MH

I have had the pleasure of working on this historical aircraft up until about 4 years ago & enjoyed everything I did. I had to withdraw my services due to personal reasons.

I used my skills as a sheet metal worker to good use but sadly some of the working methods need a lot to be desired & frustrated me. The sad thing is that a lot of the volunteers are not given the type of training that I thought would have been required to do the tasks correctly. We had one crew leader who in the circumstances did a great job, sacrificing nearly every weekend to work on the aircraft. He in turn had one man who he would turn to for any help with any problems or ordering parts etc. He was also responsible for all the other DAS aircraft.

The crew on the Ambassador at the time taught me a lot; a hell of a lot but the skills they learnt was by watching ex-RAF airframe fitters who are full time workers at the museum and the volunteers at the weekend. You have service manuals for the aircraft but there are no manuals for the practical work, removing panels, stripping, riveting etc. The one thing to remember was that if you did it wrong, it cost time, effort and money to put it right. Money they can ill afford to waste as the sheet alloy’s used is very expensive.

The operators who bring money into Duxford are top of the list for the shot blasting/stripping shed/paint shop (quite rightly) and the DAS were at the bottom. This meant that most of the large items of airframe like the wings/tailplane had to be stripped by hand. You had to book weeks in advance to have the use of the shed and when the time came it was out of action or was double booked. This meant that paint stripper had to be used and washed off with water. Cleaned with thinners and then painted by hand. If this were not done at the time then the cleaned metal would oxidise and would have to be cleaned again the next time you visited.

Spraying in the hanger was not allowed unless it was clear of the public or other staff, so most is done with a roller or brush. As for the masking tape I cannot comment on this or the cheat line as I have not seen the pictures but as the others have said, being inside and being restored is better than being left to rot!

As a matter of interest and some of you might remember this, the Ambassador used to be kept outside under a large clear plastic tarpaulin on the grass. Volunteers used to work on this all year round, that is dedication.

Any volunteer help no matter how small should be applauded and encouragement given, without these most of the projects in collections would only be memories.

BP.

Include yourself in the solution to any problems you see.

Robbo,

If it wasn’t for the fact I hate you more than could reasonably be understood by even the most ardent psychopath, I would have to say that is a dead good comment.

Instead I will say you are a fat git.

For those of you that have not worked this out.

a) Banter

b) Working on aeroplanes.

Robb does both.

Do you?

Andy

You forgot that we have found a better place than Popham to slag off Forum members, the bar of the Hare and Hounds Old Warden.

That is not true, but you would not know that as you have only been at Popham when we were not talking about you. . . .

Seriously though chaps, dive in and lend a hand at your local museum, its well worth it and great fun.

Yeah, what he said. Definitely. And for once I am not joking.

Robb and Bridget are right.

Go get your hands dirty chaps.

MH

Andy

You forgot that we have found a better place than Popham to slag off Forum members, the bar of the Hare and Hounds Old Warden.

Seriously though chaps, dive in and lend a hand at your local museum, its well worth it and great fun.

Yes, you’re right there mate. The after work pint ain’t bad either.
The banter Quotient goes into the red then.
Any more reasons needed to volunteer?
Andy

Andy

You forgot that we have found a better place than Popham to slag off Forum members, the bar of the Hare and Hounds Old Warden.

Seriously though chaps, dive in and lend a hand at your local museum, its well worth it and great fun.