Americans love Australia

With the recent trade agreement between Aus and the US, how has this been received in NZ?

It is a bit mixed. Obviously with out largely deregulated economy with few tarrifs and subsidies it is easier for us when trade deals are with countries with similar policies so I really don’t think a trade deal with the US would benefit us as much as it would them.

Will it affect NZ exports of primary products to the US and Australia, (and any other markets)?

We recently completed a free trade deal with China which is a huge market and I think we will benefit rather more from that than one with the EU or US. Our clothing industry is not overjoyed of course, but they have had years to prepare. The basic solution is that they can’t compete with cheaper imports so they should aim for a different market… ie go for quality and upmarket products rahter than cheap stuff that everyone can use.

How does a small western nation like NZ compete on world markets, as you must with your small domestic market, which I imagine is insufficient to support many enterprises?

The backbone of our income still comes from our farmers and this has been helped in the past by providing good quality products and the low value of our dollar making us a little cheaper than other countries. Our dollar is stronger now than it has been for quite some time and some exporters are feeling it. We have certainly diversified… including into the movie making business with computer animation company Weta that is competitive with the best. LOTRsTROTK, The last Samurai are just two of most recent movies to be made here and getting all those Oscars is likely to encourage more projects.

I have never been a big fan of the French, they seem totally ungrateful for anything the Allies did for them during WWII

And why should they be? How many American, British, Russian, New Zealand, or Aussie troops charge into battle with the cry “Come on Guys… Lets do this to save France!!!”.

I have friends who fought during WWII and have been to France since the war and seen the well tended gravesites and see many French people who treated them with the honour and respect they deserved… unlike the NZ rail service that decided that it wasn’t worth letting old veterans travel for free as there were only a few of them left anyway…

As far as most Americans being illiterate *******s, well….

Just had a quick look through the thread and the only comment that I think could be construed as negative toward Americans was my comment that those takin the poll probably couldn’t find the countries they were asked to judge on a map. I don’t think that is criticism… I think few people know where every single country is on a map, unless they travel a lot or are a geography teacher. That is why we have maps… so we don’t have to remember.

I was really suggesting that the results listed make me think that the scores are based on opinions that are not founded in anything but reputation. France has done something that most Americans don’t like to see… an ally with a differing opinion that is prepared to stand up and be heard.

If you take a poll of what is the best state in the US here in New Zealand the results wouldn’t mean much. Unless you were very lucky and managed to poll people who had actually travelled to the US and knew something about a state or two then you would likely get results that weren’t worth much.

I would like to close this post by saying that I opposed the war in Iraq because I knew it wasn’t about the iraqi people or WMDs but oil. I dind’t think it was right that US soldiers, British soldiers and lots of Iraqis should die for that.

That is not to say I hate US soldiers… they were just doing their job… nor do I blame the average American… even if polls suggest that most of you think it was about Al Qada… it was George Bush jnr that was at fault and that weasel Blair and brown noser Howard that people died.

Perhaps if wars were more costly to the politicians themselves there would be fewer… is mandatory that Presidents son is sent to front line or something…

Ah, what a lovely thread…the ‘who hates who the most’ thread from what I can tell. Funny how starting one of these threads can center all the attention on one nation until someone starts pointing out “Hey, YOU guys were’nt that great EITHER!” and then everyone starts looking at everyone else as a one time enemy/wishy washy friend, and the jabs start flying AT EVERYBODY. I have never been a big fan of the French, they seem totally ungrateful for anything the Allies did for them during WWII (not to mention half of them fought FOR the Germans during the war, using US and British materials against the countries that supplied them, to boot!) I think a good number of the British have a problem with the US as a whole, but basically we get along fairly well…let it be known that the majority of the US has a bit of a problem with President Bush and his wacked out policies and cavalier attitudes with the rest of the world and Europe in particular, but the day to do something about it is rapidly approaching in November. I believe the Aussies and New Zealanders get along with the Americans pretty well, we’ve never had any major grudges towards these countries, and I believe the reverse to be true from them also. Canada gave us hockey, the world’s most perfect sport, and we love ’em for it…nuff said.

As far as most Americans being illiterate *******s, well….some are and some aren’t…if you base it on how we spell the word ‘gray’ or ‘Endeavor’ as opposed to your ‘Grey’ or ‘Endeavour’, well, then, yes we have different ways of doing things…but we did’nt get to be one of the most powerful nations on the planet by being morons, folks. Our time in the spotlight, just like Rome or Britain, may be winding down (I for one believe it is), but we’ll still be a world power/force and someone to be reckoned with…and above all that, all of our countries…NZ, Australia, the US, and to some extent Canada…we all trace our roots back to Mother England whether we want to or not…I for one have always been a big fan of all of these nations, am playing host to an Aussie for three weeks this summer, have been to the UK twice in the last 4 years and LOVED it each time, know lots of Canadians and argue Hockey with them all the time, and was a HUGE fan of the ‘Lord of the Rings’ trilogy and its Oscar wins, not to mention pulling for the NZ team in the last America’s Cup (which unfortunately they lost)…you all have TONS to offer the world…why there is all this bickering between you on all these issues is beyond me…let’s just focus our attention on Osama and the French!

Mark

Garry

I agree with you about the European Common Market (I think that was its name at the time) and the way it shut our countries’ exports out from traditional markets – it hurt both countries’ primary producers severely at the time. It wasn’t a deliberate act against us, it made economic sense to the UK and Europe at the time and we were both only small part players.

With the recent trade agreement between Aus and the US, how has this been received in NZ? (apart from your earlier reference to Australian businesses trying to shut Kiwi exporters out?) Will it affect NZ exports of primary products to the US and Australia, (and any other markets)? How does a small western nation like NZ compete on world markets, as you must with your small domestic market, which I imagine is insufficient to support many enterprises?

Regards

Wombat

That is certainly one thing to which Kiwi servicemen were not subjected, and was certainly not intended to denigrate NZ’s contribution in two world wars.

Not strictly true. We didn’t have the old line up ground troops x distance from the blast… tell them to close their eyes and face the other way at the apropriate time and then turn around and face the blast type game, but some of our sailors were on ships withing the danger zone for several British tests in the Pacific. I think the tests were largely intended to test the psychological mettle of the men… ie could they stand to see a nuke go off and still be prepared to do their jobs sort of thing.

My point was (and it could apply equally to New Zealand) that our military support was pledged from the same day that Britain declared war on Germany on both occasions – I am sure we declared war within 24 hours of Britain doing so.

An amusing point actually… I think we declared war at the same time the british did and because of the time difference NZ was actually at war with Germany 12 hours before Britain… though only on paper… and of course the immediate effect was the phoney war where not much happened due to the distance between Britain and Germany… I think many Brits expected to hear airraid sirens as soon as war was declared… hense the term phoney war.

Britain’s thanks years later was “get stuffed.” I realise though, that such a view may not be indicative of the general feeling of the British for Australians, it was just the view of the current UK government at the time.

Well actually it wasn’t just Thatchers snub the get stuffed came much earlier and was in the form of farm subsidies and Europe closing ranks a bit to protect their farmers. Of course that was understandible but for us commonwealth countries that saw the mother country as our main market for dairy products and wool it was a harsh lesson.

Garry

Thanks for the response. You have obviously taken a much greater interest in the goings on behind the Rugby World Cup than me, I had no idea of the backroom shennanigans that went on. Still don’t give a stuff for the sport though!

If your comments regarding NZ manufacturers using Oz as a back door to access the US market is correct, then yes, those comments by Australian manufacturers are churlish. Our two countries don’t need that sort of animosity between us.

Regarding the Boer War, yes, Australians were present in reasonably significant numbers. Remember Harry “Breaker” Morant? Although a member of an Australian unit, he was actually British by birth. I wouldn’t have a clue what the ratio of Aussies to Kiwis was during the Boer war, but we were there.

My point about Britain owing the debt to Australia was fuelled by the refusal of Thatcher’s government to acknowledge that Australian servicemen were subjected to nuclear testing in Australia during the 50’s, before the side-effects of exposure to radiation became more widely known and understood. Many of our people subsequently developed and died from radiation induced diseases, principally cancer, but when they sought compensation from the UK Government, they were told to jump. That is certainly one thing to which Kiwi servicemen were not subjected, and was certainly not intended to denigrate NZ’s contribution in two world wars. (Actually, if our servicemen had a gripe with anybody, it was probably stupid bl**dy Bob Menzies, for allowing Britain to explode its nuclear weapons on Australian soil in the first place!)

As I mentioned previously, my old man was a pom, and when I made the statement regarding Britain’s debt to Australia, even he didn’t argue. My point was (and it could apply equally to New Zealand) that our military support was pledged from the same day that Britain declared war on Germany on both occasions – I am sure we declared war within 24 hours of Britain doing so. This meant that our military personnel were involved in two wars for a total of 11 years, when this country was directly under threat for less than four. Britain’s thanks years later was “get stuffed.” I realise though, that such a view may not be indicative of the general feeling of the British for Australians, it was just the view of the current UK government at the time.

Regarding knowledge of where countries lie on the earth, I do feel that countries as large as Australia should be reasonably well identified – smaller, less well known African and European nations (Andorra for example) could be overlooked by many.

Regards

Wombat

I don’t really have a clue what you are referring to as I couldn’t give a stuff about Rugby, but if somebody over here did something that got up your nose, don’t assume that we all took part in doing so or supported it.

I don’t really follow rugby much myself but when two countries get together and create something called the Rugby world cup with the financial backing of a Japanese company when the International Rugby Board aren’t interested in doing it themselves and then it becomes so popular that the IRB take it over then it is something of more than just importance about rugby… it was about money. The First world cup was jointly held in NZ and Oz and the last world cup was to be held jointly again but NZ got screwed by our friendly neighbours the Australian Rugby board. You see the problem was that in England advertising and the allocation of box seats etc is done differently than down here. The IRB demanded clean stadiums… ie the sponsors that were paying big money to the IRB didn’t want rivals advertisings to be visible. NZ couldn’t do that so we lost the games that were to be played here. An Australian rugby board had plenty of secret meetings with the IRB but certainly not to defend us.
The way the IRB has taken it over I really lost interest in the cup completely… and very little credit for actually making the world cup possible is ever given to that little Japanese chap who was the head of a company that loved Rugby and wanted a world cup.

Equally recently with your closer relationship with the US and new trade agreement I have seen Australian officials stating categorically that they will be watching for NZ companies with offices in Australia to make sure that no NZ goods are able to be sent to the US under the new trade agreement.

We certainly have a fine history… but I think we are drifting apart.

Unlike the UK, which, in my opinion, owes far more to Australia than it can ever repay,owing to our contribution to two world wars

Kiwi troops helped in the Boer wars as well… were Ozzie diggers there to? (I don’t know… this is not a rhetorical question.)

The point was made that most yanks wouldn’t know where any country was apart from their own, which may be true. Pity for them.

Well to be perfectly honest there are some countries I am not sure about… but I do own an Atlas and use it when I need to.

Arthur

Judging by the news this morning, it doesn’t matter where you live, Osama’s mates are gonna getcha!

They seem to have turned their attention to their own people, with bomb attacks in Iraq and shootings in Pakistan. The simple fact with this scum is that they have declared war on the world and nowhere is safe, I just happen to believe that certain places are much safer than others, and believe that Australia is about as safe as it gets. The fact that Germany and France didn’t participate in the activity in Iraq makes them no safer in my book than Australia. Hmmm, Belgium shares borders with France and Germany, so how safe do they feel there?

Regards

Wombat

Originally posted by Wombat
As for being uncertain because you are tops on the American list, I’d much rather be there than tops on Osama’s list.

Hey, being high on the US’ buddylist automatically puts you high on Osama’s score list too. Even more populair!

Originally posted by GarryB

Still the way you aussies stuck us in the back over the rugby world cup hosting BS it seems you have more in common with them than with your cobbers over the ditch…

Garry

I don’t really have a clue what you are referring to as I couldn’t give a stuff about Rugby, but if somebody over here did something that got up your nose, don’t assume that we all took part in doing so or supported it.

The rivalry between Oz and NZ should remain on the sporting field – there is too much in common between our nations to spoil that.

I don’t necessarily support our relentless search for America’s blessing – I would much prefer that we stood on our own two feet and asserted our independence. BUT, and its a big “but”, there is always the chance that we may need the US’s support again sometime in the future and it is a comfort to know that they would be prepared to acknowledge our alliegances of the past.

Unlike the UK, which, in my opinion, owes far more to Australia than it can ever repay,owing to our contribution to two world wars, one of which we never needed to be involved in, and the other, where we were engaged in war for nearly seven years, but really only needed to be for under four. (Bet that starts some fur flying – and my father was English, so this isn’t pom-bashing)
The only thanks we got from the UK was to be used as a bomb testing area for nuclear weapons in the 1950’s, and total denial of any recompense for servicemen and women who were exposed to the radiation as part of the tests. Thanks very much, Mrs. Thatcher.

The point was made that most yanks wouldn’t know where any country was apart from their own, which may be true. Pity for them.

Flood – just how much do YOU know about Australia and Australians? I have noted from your incredibly numerous posts that you are particularly strong in putting your opinions across. I realise that you used plenty of smilies at the end of your post regarding us sounding like them, so you may have just been leg-pulling. I can’t tell.

Regards

Wombat

Originally posted by Wrenchbender
I guess they are willing like us you pulling the English out of scrapes that aren’t our fight.

You mean like Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Haiti(?), and countless others…

Flood.

Suppose it depends where the Bender comes from… – Nermal

I guess they are willing like us you pulling the English out of scrapes that aren’t our fight.

Please explain. You’re not being an A*** Hole again are you?

I guess they are willing like us you pulling the English out of scrapes that aren’t our fight.

Wouldn’t read too much into such a result… how many Americans in those polls do you think could find the countries they were talking about on a map?

It is rather obvious they are basing their opinions about countries of the world on their support for the US invasion of Iraq.

…how shallow is that?

Just wait till there is a real threat that you might get invaded and then start brown nosing… at least then you can keep your dignity a little longer.

The amusing thing is that New Zealands current prime minister said some things to offend Bush jnr and we are in the dog box one presumes. Our previous support for the US and current support including world wars and ventures into Vietnam etc and our assistance with Echelon and the US antarctic base in Christchurch seem now to count for nothing.

Such a fickle ally isn’t actually that useful in my opinion.

Still the way you aussies stuck us in the back over the rugby world cup hosting BS it seems you have more in common with them than with your cobbers over the ditch…

Jeanske

That’s a real insult – we Aussies sound absolutely nothing like the yanks…I’m really p***ed off now! We have worked at our dialect for over 200 years, only to be told we sound like yanks??? Back to recognition school for you, my lad!

Flood

Us, cultured???

Or did you mean the yanks?

I must admit we haven’t done ourselves any favours overseas with our own depiction of ourselves as uncouth yobbo’s abroad. Barry McKenzie has a lot to answer for.

Regards

Wombat

Americans probably like Ockers because, next to them, they look almost cultured!;):D:D:D

Flood.

They propably like Australians because their language is the most comparable to the American accent :).

Now, now children. You have all forgotten the real offender here…Germaine Greer!!

As for being uncertain because you are tops on the American list, I’d much rather be there than tops on Osama’s list.

From all the mail I’ve seen over the past couple of years, I get the feeling that Australians are far more tolerant, or far less antagonistic, towards the yanks than Europeans and Brits (I separated the poms because I don’t know that they like to be considered as Europeans.)

Whilst there are obviously many out here who do dislike Americans, our national bonds are pretty strong, particularly since WWII. Whilst I would love to believe that we were strong enough to stand alone if international conflict broke out again, the sad fact is that we are not, and probably won’t be for many many years, if ever. We need a strong ally and I would rather be a good pal of the strongest nation on earth than the weakest.

Just my thoughts for the night, as summer draws to a temperate end, with just 90 minutes to go.

Regards

Wombat:o

Ha – And Nicole Kidman! – Nermal

I blame Paul Hogan…

Flood.