Americas death knell as world police force?

Originally posted by pluto77189
“You Americans don’t Understand________________”

Typical elitist crap. Of course, “us Americans” don’t have much of a view of the rest of the world. Europeans, however, are more cultured, and have a better understanding of the world’s issues. Being sheltered between the Atlantic and pacific Oceans, we just simply don’t understand the problems of the rest of the world, and as a result, are self-serving, aspiring only wealth and status, and A B O V E A L L…………… P O W E R !
We are so greedy and narrow minded, we ignore the rest of the world. All we care about is the accumilation of our own fortunes.

You know, saying stuff like that is the reason some Americans think Europeans are a bunch of elitists Anti-americans, envious of the fact that America offers such oppurtunity not FATHOMABLE in their country. Just keep posting that stuff, and other Americans will KEEP thinking you guys are having “country envy”.

Last I checked, lack of schools leads to masses of STUPID PEOPLE. Masses of STUPID PEOPLE are very succeptible to religious fanaticisim, and scapegoating. They blame all their problems(stupid people have lots) on people that DON’T have such problems. Compared to the rest of the world, Americans seem worry free, heck, we’re the richest, most visual nation, so why not BLAME us? Educating people leads to sucessful people. Successful, intelligent people create successful countries.

Yes europe is different from the US. We have been through to 2 huge wars in the last century. It was our homes that were destroyed and our children that died.
And most important we have learned that people can fight for a higher goal, without any reason.
I myself can´t understand why the germans fought in Ww2 and especially why they fought so fiercely. And I think the Germans were not uneducated or stupid according to your definition. I mean look at the bombings of our cities, any one reasonable sane would wonder why they contiued to fight under that conditions. And also the attacks grew stronger and stronger it did not break the will of the german population. Could have more schools changed that – I don´t think so.

What made the North Vietnames and the Vietcong fight so fiercely. Should the pure technical superiority of the US have been enough to make them sue for peace ? What motivated them to join the cause and walk all the way to join the fight in the South. What made them live in caves and tunnels for years ? A lack of schools ?

We must accept that people can be motivated for a specific cause, that we in the modern western world ca not understand. Look at the Al Qaeda terrorists, they were all well educated. So a lack of education can´t be the reason.

And that is what I mean, americans always believe that there always is a cure to a problem. But some times there is no simple and quick solution.

Originally posted by plawolf
“
lol, get out in the streets and ask americans if they send stationary to iraq and i’ll bet most of them will either laugh at u or give u ‘the look’.:rolleyes:

rebuilding iraq is big business where lots of money is to be made. america doesnt want to share the pie (not even with the british it seems), and now it has appeared it has bitten off more then it can chew.
:

I was not talking about buisness, just donations.

And most americans are NOT donating. IF they did, Iraq qould be able to triple it’s GDP by sellingoff surplus donations.

All it takes is a few people to donate a few boxes of pencils and paper to supply an entire school for a year.

I wouldn’t say it’s bitten off too much. Everyone fully expected the recent events, the sunnis are afraid they’ll be punished for being saddam’s pets, and the Radical Shiites, having been oppressed for decades, think that an islamic state is best. Both groups are willing to do crazy things–to the point of damaging their cause–to get their point across.

With support of most of Iraqis, the Us will see things through.

In Vietnam, the people were ok with whatever they had–they didn’t care about being free, only alive. The Iraqis want freedom, and most know how to get it(NOT shiite theocracy, or imperial dictatorship).

Time wil tell.

“Why everything’s got to come from America? Maybe Americans SHOULDN’T be the only ones sending stuff. Maybe if you Europeans decided to send some school supplies, then it wouldn’t ALL come from America. People are donating this stuff THEMSELVES, individuals, out of their own pocket, shipping it with their OWN money. Get off your high horse, buy some pencils and paper, and ship it over there yourself if you want to. “

lol, get out in the streets and ask americans if they send stationary to iraq and i’ll bet most of them will either laugh at u or give u ‘the look’.:rolleyes:

rebuilding iraq is big business where lots of money is to be made. america doesnt want to share the pie (not even with the british it seems), and now it has appeared it has bitten off more then it can chew.

a very large proportion is not vast majority of iraqis protesting in the streets are there not cos they want to kill americans, but because they cant feed their families and are desperate and anger. having bullets shot at ur, rubber or otherwise is not going to make them feel any better.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by plawolf
[B
i think there’s also the little fact that many of those schools were damaged or destroyed in the fight for iraq. or the lawlessness that followed saddam’s fall from power.:rolleyes:

Well, the VAST majority of the schools being rebuilt weren’t “damaged” by military/looting, they were simply poorly maintained, in terrible condition or lacking in funds.

would be alot cheaper if alot of those things came from china or india or europe. and its not like they are fighting to embargo stationary for iraqi schoolkids, wonder why everything’s got to come from america.:rolleyes: [/B]

Why everything’s got to come from America? Maybe Americans SHOULDN’T be the only ones sending stuff. Maybe if you Europeans decided to send some school supplies, then it wouldn’t ALL come from America. People are donating this stuff THEMSELVES, individuals, out of their own pocket, shipping it with their OWN money. Get off your high horse, buy some pencils and paper, and ship it over there yourself if you want to.

Why DOES it all have to come from America?

Originally posted by seahawk
Perhaps the people don´t want schools, they want freedom from forgein occupation.
You americans never do understand that people are devoted to other things then money, status and wealth. You duid never understand the motivation of the vietnamese and you do not understan the motivation of the Iraqi population.

“You Americans don’t Understand________________”

Typical elitist crap. Of course, “us Americans” don’t have much of a view of the rest of the world. Europeans, however, are more cultured, and have a better understanding of the world’s issues. Being sheltered between the Atlantic and pacific Oceans, we just simply don’t understand the problems of the rest of the world, and as a result, are self-serving, aspiring only wealth and status, and A B O V E A L L…………… P O W E R !
We are so greedy and narrow minded, we ignore the rest of the world. All we care about is the accumilation of our own fortunes.

You know, saying stuff like that is the reason some Americans think Europeans are a bunch of elitists Anti-americans, envious of the fact that America offers such oppurtunity not FATHOMABLE in their country. Just keep posting that stuff, and other Americans will KEEP thinking you guys are having “country envy”.

Last I checked, lack of schools leads to masses of STUPID PEOPLE. Masses of STUPID PEOPLE are very succeptible to religious fanaticisim, and scapegoating. They blame all their problems(stupid people have lots) on people that DON’T have such problems. Compared to the rest of the world, Americans seem worry free, heck, we’re the richest, most visual nation, so why not BLAME us? Educating people leads to sucessful people. Successful, intelligent people create successful countries.

Originally posted by pluto77189
well, over a hundred are planned to be BUILT, from the ground up, but around 2,000 are being rebuilt. Additions added, electricity, seweage, plumbing, furniture. THAT’s happenig in the thousands.

The news does report the biulding of new schools, but they don’t do much for the refurbishing, rebuilding of old ones,simply because it’s so widespread.

Much of the supplies come directly from Americans, buying bulk supples, and shiping them directly to Iraq. See it all over the place.

Perhaps the people don´t want schools, they want freedom from forgein occupation.
You americans never do understand that people are devoted to other things then money, status and wealth. You duid never understand the motivation of the vietnamese and you do not understan the motivation of the Iraqi population.

Don’t be stupid.
War is good for business.
What is good for business is good for America.
Do you really think Wall Street would thank the president if he spent money (and lives, but they’re cheap to big business, aren’t they…) on a war and then didn’t make any attempt to profit from it?:rolleyes:

Flood.

“The news does report the biulding of new schools, but they don’t do much for the refurbishing, rebuilding of old ones,simply because it’s so widespread. “

i think there’s also the little fact that many of those schools were damaged or destroyed in the fight for iraq. or the lawlessness that followed saddam’s fall from power.:rolleyes:

“Much of the supplies come directly from Americans, buying bulk supples, and shiping them directly to Iraq.”

would be alot cheaper if alot of those things came from china or india or europe. and its not like they are fighting to embargo stationary for iraqi schoolkids, wonder why everything’s got to come from america.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by google
Actually, I did hear about it on the news, but it wasn’t thousands of schools. More like dozens.

well, over a hundred are planned to be BUILT, from the ground up, but around 2,000 are being rebuilt. Additions added, electricity, seweage, plumbing, furniture. THAT’s happenig in the thousands.

The news does report the biulding of new schools, but they don’t do much for the refurbishing, rebuilding of old ones,simply because it’s so widespread.

Much of the supplies come directly from Americans, buying bulk supples, and shiping them directly to Iraq. See it all over the place.

But whose version of My Way do you think he’ll copy?

Flood.

…yes, before you know he’ll be singing that Elton John-monster about that black beret… bwhuuuu!

Although i wouldn’t mind hearing Snapper’s version of Stop the Cavalry 🙂 I will gladly provide the dubadubadumdum chorus.

Quick – grab the mike before he starts another one…:eek:

Flood.

“Last Night Another Soldier”

Last night another soldier, last night another child
No one seems to worry, no one sees his mother cry

Can you see that smart, clean soldier,
Standing straight and oh so proud
He wants to fight for Queen and country
He wants to make his family proud

A job with the future, his way to get out of it
It’s his sense of romance, it never ends that way
Last night another soldier, last night another child
No one seems to worry, no one sees his mother cry

They’re just facts and figures on your TV screen
Another child and another soldier, is peace just a dream

In the country strange and foreign all the people resent him
He can’t cope with his problems, all the fears and hatred

Now he wish he never went he wish he never thought of it
It’s not the same as fighting armies looking for the terrorists

They’re just facts and figures…

Can you hear the mocking laughter from the ones that gain by it
They’re not in line for the bullets, they’re the ones who started it

They’re just facts and figures…

Last night another soldier, last night another child
Just a number in the papers, another one of the innocent

They’re just facts and figures..

ANGELIC UPSTARTS

Originally posted by pluto77189
Thousands of schools have been bult by/with help from US troops. These thousands of schools house tens of thousands of Iraqi children. Do we see news reports every day saying that these kids are now back in school? No. Because it’s not news.

Actually, I did hear about it on the news, but it wasn’t thousands of schools. More like dozens.

Originally posted by Flood

Don’t knock the media – it is only doing what it is told to do.

Flood.

I wasn’t. I was simply explaining the facts. The media is reporting the news, that’s what it DOES, what it is supposed to do. I never knocked it–I was simply clarifying that the NEWS is not necessarily the whole story.

Originally posted by pluto77189
News is whatever happens. BIG news is whatever happens that’s a significant change from “normal”. so, when things are going good, rarely do you hear the news report it.

“breaking news! Today, tens of thaousands of people flew on aircraft, with NO terrorist attacks!”
you’ll never see that.

What would you prefer to see in your newspaper or on your TV:-
Dolphins Nearly Extinct or Dolphins Extinct?
The first headline is telling you that the dolphins are in danger of dying out, maybe we could do something about it, maybe not – but there are still dolphins out there. The second headline tells you it is too late – they are gone.
So what about if the headline said Dolphins Still Extinct?
That is telling you nothing – and things like No Terrorist Attacks Today tells us nothing either. People want to know what is happening in the world; if their local hospital has a bout of food poisoning then they’d want to know about it in case they have an accident and get taken in. If a man dies whilst detained in your local police station you’d want to know that he hadn’t been mistreated when in custody, or that the officers at the station did all that they could to assist him rather than stand around and laugh at him…
If you were on a flight and someone tried to get into the cockpit wouldn’t you want to know about it? If that drunk succeeded then your ‘plane could come down; you could die – wouldn’t you want to hear the airlines management insist that there were measures in place to prevent a drunk getting into the cockpit, or that it was a close escape but they are now making sure that this event never happened again?
In Britain there has been a lot of press about people (particularly children) dying and their internal organs being retained against the next of kins wishes; there is a lot of compensation flying about and lots of health authorities are running scared because they apparently sanctioned such action and now fear that it will cost them a fortune for each case. I look on it that had it not been for the media bringing it to a wider audience then the families involved would still be getting fobbed off with denials right up until the body parts were returned and they were told that they’d have to pay themselves to have these items interred; it is only the fact that it is hitting these health authorities in the bank account that makes the management take notice. Another tick for the media?
And Iraq: in Britain a fair proportion of the population didn’t want their lads there; how would you let the population know that another soldier died out there? In America the media is far more patriotic, backing their governments actions to the point of being their presidents flag wavers: doesn’t it worry you that this ‘arm’ of the government might actually be preparing the American public for the moment that the troops are pulled out – with the full backing of their commander-in-chief?

Don’t knock the media – it is only doing what it is told to do.

Flood.

its always hard to occupy a ppl that dont want to be occupied without resorting to brutal means.

the US is getting stuck in the middle, it cant bring itself to use the level of force and viloence need to inforce law and order, but neither can it just take losses and not go back with a vengence like the british can.

lets just put it this way, american flags will never fly over every capital city in the world, but the US can still beat the crap out of anyone it wants provide the american ppl are up for it.

Russia or China???

I fClinton was in office, yeah, I’d say we’d be pulling out of Iraq after the first ugly incedent. Just like in Somalia.

However, the few thousand people causing trouble looks far worse than it is.

New media is a buisness, and a filthy bunch of scavengers they all are.

News is whatever happens. BIG news is whatever happens that’s a significant change from “normal”. so, when things are going good, rarely do you hear the news report it.

“breaking news! Today, tens of thaousands of people flew on aircraft, with NO terrorist attacks!”
you’ll never see that.

sombody gets drunk, and takes a run to the cockpit, it’s all over the news.

Similarly, if things in Iraq are generally going as planned, with the majority of people having a positive outlook, and buisness starting to improve, you are NOT going to see this reported.

The moment some whacko gets himself killed by throwing himself in fromnt of a tank, or some people get upset and shoot at troops–all over the news.

US troops track down, locate and subsecuently kill people conspiring to attack them, the police and iraqi citizens EVERY DAY. And because of that–that it’s a regular occurance–it’s not published, because, frankly, it’s nothing new.

Thousands of schools have been bult by/with help from US troops. These thousands of schools house tens of thousands of Iraqi children. Do we see news reports every day saying that these kids are now back in school? No. Because it’s not news.

Just because it’s not in the news doesn’t mean it’s not happening. And just because it’s in the news doesn’t mean it’s the norm.

If it WERE the norm, it wouldn’t be news, and we wouldn’t care.

You’ll see more of this–it’s inevitable. There are religious fundamentalists in Iraq, and they’re going to do everything they are told, no matter the cost. We all know it’s going to happen.

Control of Iraq is not something that’s going to happen immediatly, it’s something that going to take years. Ideally, we’ll NEVER have “control” over Iraq. We’ll have SOME, but we intend Iraq to have self control before we leave. It’s not possible to actually control Iraq to such a degree unless we intended to actually KEEP it, which we don’t.