Any chance of the CAA allowing Lightnings to fly in the UK

so it looks like ZF579, XS458 in the UK. That’s the lot:eek::eek: that is very sobering indeed!!

Sobering indeed.

Such a shame too that only 2 of the ‘Cranfield Six’ were able to be saved as flyers/runners or potential of either, especially as I remember walking around them with Barry P and him saying that the best candidate for a single seat flyer was ‘898, as it was the lowest houred (list shows only 3488 after last flight) and FI’d of the three, as it had had that strip down/rebuild after it’s 10+G overstress in 1980.

Such a shame as well that the end of the lighter and lower houred/FI’d F.3 fleet was largely ignored for uncut preservation, something that frustrated me at the time, but I suppose you can’t save them all.

Out of the half dozen remaining airworthy F.3’s, XP707 had been chosen for the final 87 aero’s season, presumably as it was the lowest houred (2393 hrs) and presumably lowest FI’d of them. Of course, it ended up in a smoking hole in the ground soon after during a practice work-up after a fuel imbalance, with the ejected pilot, Barry Lennon only 20 mins afterwards, asking LTF boss Clive Rowley, can he have another jet as the one he’d had was now unserviceable!

At the end of the final ’87 season, when the remaining last two airworthy F.3’s were flown off to an ignominious end on RAF fire dumps, XR716 AQ, still only had 2481 hrs on it, and presumably a corresponding still low FI.

Salad Fingers – couldn’t agree more.

There is also the fact that should a Lightning be allowed to grace our skies once more, it would take the pi$$ out of most of the RAF’s current fleet for speed!! Typhoon perhaps being the only exception, and maybe a clean F3 with empty fuel tanks and a tailwind!

I doubt showing up the RAF is a part of the equation really!

no you’re right, but it would be a lot of fun none the less :diablo:

There is also the fact that should a Lightning be allowed to grace our skies once more, it would take the pi$$ out of most of the RAF’s current fleet for speed!! Typhoon perhaps being the only exception, and maybe a clean F3 with empty fuel tanks and a tailwind!

I doubt showing up the RAF is a part of the equation really!

Many thanks for the update on that, its good to see the actual factors preventing getting one of them into the air. Maybe some day! Though I am old enough to have seen a lightning in the air at an airshow, when i was about 7! Will have to head over to Bruntingthorpe.

Lightning Unsafe

Can i just put one thing to bed for once and for all……The Lightning is not an unsafe aeroplane. There were about 350 Lightnings built, about 75 were written off over a period of some 30 + years. Thunder city have operated the Lightning safely for 10 years. I think youll find more Jet Provosts have been written off in civillian hands in the last few years but no one says a word. Many Lightning accidents were due to fuel leaks which were eventually cured. When in Service the early 1970s saw about 1 aircraft lost in the North sea every month due to a variety of OPERATIONAL issues. Flying a Lightning in 2009 in UK airspace would be no more dangerous than flying a Spitfire. Of course we could fly a Lightning in the UK if we didnt live in a society where every one is obsessed with Safety, being PC not doing anything risky etc etc. IF and its a big IF we had more people running the UK like Sir Ranulph Fines PERHAPS we would put the UK back on the Map as being a place where things actually worked! I give up with the “Cant , Wont attitude” do you think the Battle of Britain Pilots gave in – Hell No- I had the Privelage of meeting one two weeks ago and i really cant imagine what he must think of when he sees the UK today.

where does this misconception that CAA won’t allow Lightnings to fly, come from?!.:confused:(

A very interesting post MJR and one that does bring hope after many years. As to where the misconception comes from all I can say on the subject is that around 10 years ago I had a very interesting chat with 2 of the 7 people who at the time sat on the team who processed and signed of the appropriate paperwork to approve aircraft like the Lightning to fly. They were both adamant that none of the team would be prepared to sign any paperwork allowing a Lightning to fly in the UK due to the amount of ‘evidence’ that exists that the type is unsafe to operate (crash record / fire history etc) and the potential for any manslaughter cases etc to be brought against them in light of it should an aircraft crash killing innocent people. The people involved are well known in aviation circules and its a small community so word gets around, I believe it was also pretty much the same as what the potential Lightning operator at the time had been saying. Hope this helps.

nah, when i sent him the link he was just gobsmacked that she’d actually flown!!!

I hope he didnt bet his dinner money on that nash:D

my uncle works for rolls royce in italy, and he was ADAMANT that 558 would never fly, due to engines…

interesting indeed 🙂

Just out of interest

Which would be the candidates out of your 2/3 aircraft? 😀 (so i know which to buy in 10 years time :p)

hmm sorry folks I got my facts wrong on that, as me ol’ Andy (320psi) has pointed out on another thread. so it looks like ZF579, XS458 in the UK. That’s the lot:eek::eek: that is very sobering indeed!! hmmm best treat the old heap with kid gloves from now on then;) no more fighter pilot games in the cokpit! or swearing at her anymore:D

Joe Petroni makes an excellent post indeed. If anyone thinks the CAA are bad news, just wait until(if it happens) EASA get full control. then you will be begging CAA for forgiveness!!

I baught my euro ticket yesterday:D

that rumour about Rolls is a rumour, total tosh.:)

As much as I would love to see a Lightning back in the skies above the UK, I think Its more realistic to be looking for a holiday in South Africa and Mike Beacheyhead’s lovely collection. That is what I am trying to convince the wife into anyway.

Even if the economy was not so messed up I would very much doubt such a project could be sustained in the UK, And with the economy the way it is I feel it would be better to concentrate on what we currently have support them and the airshow scene.

I have heard similar…

Plus I’ve heard from several separate and reputable sources that Rolls Royce withdrew most/all of it’s support for legacy engines after an instruction from ‘on high’, as someone very high up didn’t want a certain tin triangle to fly again.

Just rumour, of course!

Good post mjr.

There is a lot of rubbish posted about the CAA on here.

There is a set of rules for certification of ex Military Aircraft, BCAR A8-20, available on the CAA website (where would be without rules?) . Pick ‘complex category’ tick the boxes and you to can have a flying Lightning*.

For people out there who think the CAA are out to stop all our fun, ask yourself this which country operates the largest, heaviest most complex warbird in the world?

*A triple euromillions roll over may be required.

all add her to the chrismas list … :rolleyes:

interesting indeed 🙂

Just out of interest

Which would be the candidates out of your 2/3 aircraft? 😀 (so i know which to buy in 10 years time :p)

Excellent way of putting it MJR, and makes a refreshing change from the ‘CAA won’t let you’ excuse that is always wheeled out for complex historic aircraft to the skies arguments.

I see no reason it couldn’t be done. However, the cash investment required to achieve it would be insane!, prohibitive

Let’s look at it::rolleyes:

Everything required to go flying, is mainly available. The obstacles are not insurmountable, but cash is imo. where does this misconception that CAA won’t allow Lightnings to fly, come from?!.:confused:

the CAA were engaged quite recently, they were most helpful(shock horror!) same applies now, as it did 15 years ago. CAA WILL allow a Lightning to fly in the UK, but with Design Authority backing. Marshalls or Bae. (Bae? forget it, but are prepared to hand over Authority to Marshalls) Marshalls will take on, if you have the dosh. There are one or two big stumbling blocks. 1) a lack of spare “zero houred” engines with paper work. 2) no OEM for engine and pipe overhauls.

All lifed assets are still around and reasonably plentyfull, mainly from Ex Saudi stock, (all be it spread between 2-3 groups, and mainly used) but, with original paperwork, the OEM’s can rebuild and re-certify anything you want. simply a cash issue.Dowty, Plessey, Lucas, Dunlop etc, still exist in some guise.

pipes, pumps, reheat pipes, gearboxes, flying surfaces etc, are all available used, dry stored, with log cards, from ex Saudi stock. Of that stock, circa 60% is suitable for OEM overhaul. The paperwork exists for most of the preserved Ex Saudi airframes in the uk, and the parts that were or still are fitted to them. majority of the parts are well within lifed hours, suitable for overhaul. much of it has already been recovered.

airframes?. I think there are only maybe 2-3 candidates? with FI/hours left, in suitably “reasonable” nick.

It would require a pooling of effort between Lightning groups, museums, and owners of ex Saudi frames, to pull the remaining stock together, and a formula 1 budget.

You would need a firm to certify Avon 302’s, and reheat units, ratified by the CAA. Rolls Royce no longer certify Avon aero engines or pipes. what to do? hmm

simply due to intergalactic costs that make 8 million look like pocket change! is a good enough reason for it not to happen.:(

Surely if they can get the expertise in far off lands to fly these beauties (with no substantial problems), it would be easier in the Uk with the relevant expertise on hand.

Have a look a the “In Memory” section, it’s about halfway down the page on the 89 Entry website. You will find that the Lightning features prominently.

exmpa